fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #757 ]

⌈ Secret Post #757 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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[Higurashi]

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[Higurashi, Miyo Takano]

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[Spider-Girl]

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[Onyanko Club]

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[Chowder]

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[School Days]

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[Skins]

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[Demons, Ruby/Rupert]

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[Ayreon, Magali Luyten]

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[Gurren Lagann]

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[Heroes]

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[Barney Stinson, How I Met Your Mother]

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[Supernatural]

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[Gundam Wing]

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167. [repeat]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 21 pages, 525 secrets from Secret Submission Post #109.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - posted twice ], [ 1 2 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Racism became unacceptable through decades of gradual change, that's why. Trying to fix everything at once would likely have caused the backlash to end all backlashes. Besides, racism isn't completely eradicated from our society.

In terms of ending homophobia, there's been so much (mostly natural) progress in the past decade- for example, the overwhelming support for Don't Ask Don't Tell isn't there anymore. It isn't as if things aren't changing at all.

Change doesn't happen unless we demand it. The only reason any has come about is because we've never stopped. To imply that it would have happened regardless of our protestations is incredibly naive.

We're fighting, damnit, because somebody has to. That's why apathy is such a detriment.

I'll give you that- I am pretty damn naive. And change usually does require quite a bit of work.

I suppose the change just felt more natural to me because it seemed more like an attempt to change people's minds than an attempt to shame people for not getting involved. The change we've had so far feels like what society was ready for (even if it took work to get society to that point.) The activists I've met recently seem like what they want is to force change. That's what struck me as ineffectual and intolerant, and turned me off.

Do you think apathy for a cause is worse than scorn for an overly aggressive cause?

(I'm curious as to what you think about civil unions... a good stepping stone to marriage, or a compromise not worth settling for?)

If you've met overly aggressive activists lately, please put it in the context of recent events--the defeat that was Prop 8, after the victory that was the California supreme court decision, was an incredibly painful blow, but in being so painful has served as a remarkable rallying point, the likes of which haven't been seen for nearly twenty years.

This fighting spirit has caused more hope than there's been experienced in years, so there's a concerted effort not to let go of it. Wait-and-see isn't really good enough anymore. (Bit of a side note, but the vote on Prop 8 was blamed by most on an apathy in many who do support gay marriage--ballot confusion, low voter turnout in more liberal areas, etc).

Civil unions? I'm torn. About the only thing that's helped me form an opinion on them is the results they've gotten in the UK--they're viewed as marriages by the general populace. Basically, they'll only be acceptable as long as they include every single damn one of the federal benefits that opposite-sex marriages get.

Can I just say that I love your responses on this post. They have been saying what I have been trying to say but much better.

Thanks, that means a lot. :)

I understand about Prop 8. (I thought that the reason behind Prop 8 passing was somewhat because a lot of the people who turned out to vote for Obama were socially conservative Democrats, but also somewhat because some church or other had started a mass "information" campaign, where they said that all churches would be forced to marry gay couples, and that schools would be required to teach tolerance for homosexuality. Hadn't the mayor of San Francisco also said something about how gay marriage would happen whether people liked it or not? I know there were a lot of factors involved, but I was pretty sure one of them was people not feeling like they had the right to oppose it.)

I actually agree with you mostly on the civil union thing (which surprises me a little), in that it's better to get equal civil unions sooner than to refuse those and wait for it to be called "marriage." You seem a bit utilitarian yourself. (Side note: Personally I'd like all couples, gay or straight, to be given "civil unions" instead of marriages, but that's not going to happen.)

Yeah, well, this too. Sorry, I totally oversimplified that statement to a pretty ridiculous degree (I think I was in a hurry to get the comment posted). It's a whole mess. The vote was so close that a greater voter turnout by Prop 8 opposers could have probably made things turn out differently, but the misinformation given in the churches was part of it too. The Anti-Prop 8 campaign should have gone into the churches themselves, but that had more to do with mishandling the campaign than apathy.

The thing said by the mayor of San Fransisco, it was just a stupid little blip that unfortunately got used in all the worst ways (a politician should have known better, but the man's such a vocal LGBT supporter that I'm resistant to blaming him for too much).

It's just. A lot of the LGBT movement has lacked motivation for a while now, and the Prop 8 vote was an unfortunate wake-up call to the situation.

Utility v. Morality, oh man oh man.

From what I've heard, the Yes on Prop 8 campaign was quite a bit more organized and well-funded than the No on Prop 8 one. I'm guessing overall there are more people in California who either support or don't really mind gay marriage than the people who are actively opposed to it, but from a campaign standpoint, the Yes people did quite a lot right. Maybe the No people didn't really consider them a threat?

Think going to the churches would really have done much?

There were more than a few people who just didn't think Prop 8 had a chance, yeah. The millions of dollars pouring in from the Mormon church didn't help either.

Doing something to correct all of the misinformation circulating, yeah. California's actually got a lot of protection regarding the kind of education parents want their children to have, but that information didn't make it everywhere.

Also, liberalism v. conservativism in California's kind of a frustrating situation. Always a blue state, with huge liberal big-city centers, but with a Republican governor and many Republican officials who enjoy pretty stable positions most of the time. A huge immigrant population that tends to lean conservative. That sort of thing. Prop 8 opposers overlooked too many constituencies and made too many assumptions.

[ SECRET POST #757 ]

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