fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5236 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5236 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[The Falcon and the Winter Soldier]

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03.

[Clerks II]

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04.

[The Untamed]

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05.

[Shadow and Bone]

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06.

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07.

[Ni no Kuni 2]

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08. [SPOILERS for King Charles III (play)]

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09. [SPOILERS for Final Fantasy IV]

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10. [SPOILERS for Yakuza 0]
[WARNING for discussion of violence]

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11. [WARNING for discussion of rape/sexual assault]

[Girls of Paper and Fire]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #749.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Unfortunately, pretty much everything Tony does after the international accords scene seems to involve stupidity for the sake of plot. While he's right that superheros need some regulation, he goes on to escalate the fight with Steve way out of control. A phone conversation would have given Tony enough clues to independently verify what's going on (especially since Zemo was also leading Tony to Russia), without the completely unnecessary airport fight.

There's a fair bit of abilities scaling to the level of plot going on. Tony can drop hulkbuster armor anywhere around the world but can't track or disable aircraft he built? And arguably the whole movie is a demonstration of overly aggressive American action-style policing in a nutshell.

This^

I feel like you don't remember or you're obscuring the sequence of events. The airport fight is the first time Steve indicates to Tony that he thinks something else is going on, lmao (Steve doesn't know something else is going on until Bucky tells him after he is triggered by Zemo and they sneak away and it is that action for which Tony is sent after him to apprehend him at the airport; what third party are you contemplating here and verification of what?). I don't actually think there is unnecessary escalation in the airport fight, what happens is that nobody deescalates, i.e. Tony won't listen until Steve gives a sign he'll capitulate, Steve won't capitulate until Tony listens. I think Steve and Tony both have mildly reasonable thought processes here, i.e. Steve thinks they're on a deadline and even seeming capitulation will derail his purpose, Tony thinks Steve has done this before and there's no reason to trust him now when the stakes are even higher than when he went rouge after Barnes the first two times in the same movie. After the fight, Tony would like to investigate but thinks Ross is suspicious of him (he's right, Ross is) and willing to kill Steve and co (he's right, he is, that's established before the fight) so he needs to do so covertly. Disabling tech or making a call would potentially put Steve and Barnes in an international, and therefore Ross's, path. There's no reason why Tony would want to risk that.

Also.....how do I say this? Bucky is accused of assassinating the leader of a sovereign nation ~~(I could say something here about which leaders matter but that isn't the point)~~ at an international conference with other world leaders and "American" ~heroes~ are "harboring" him. Formerly, that's has started world wars, so making this about overly aggression policing is.....I don't like the use of the US military for cash either but there is a global underreaction happening in this movie lmao.

I agree the plot is playing idiot ball with the characters the entire time, but I don't agree that Tony is such a victim of it that it bears notice more than all the other idiots. ~~But yes Zemo is correct these superheroes are too dumb to live~~

The airport fight is the first time Steve indicates to Tony that he thinks something else is going on, lmao ...

It also was stupid for Steve to sit around with his thumb up his asshole for hours because he needs a costume and shield to chase after someone who almost certainly wasn't using anything better than business class. So we have a super "cop" and a super "special forces" guy who do fuckall with a shared network of intelligence and social contacts to figure out what the fuck is going on. Instead, Tony is making trans-Atlantic flights to bring in a teenager and leer at the teen's aunt in the most important hours of a fugitive investigation. And Steve absolutely must have a shield and buds making last-minute trans-Atlantic flights just to show up in the movie.

In the lead up to the fight, we're shown that both Tony and Steve are making contact with people who are in contact with each other. But if either had used that network intelligently, we wouldn't have a Disney moment for Spider-Man. The whole setup is like James Bond but even stupider.

I don't actually think there is unnecessary escalation in the airport fight, what happens is that nobody deescalates, ....

On Steve's side, we have a guy who we know is fully capable of doing a covert operation, showing up at a civilian airport next to the boarding terminals with a crew in full costume in the open.

Then Tony throws his own dick-waving directly into a confrontation at a civilian airport next to the boarding terminals. Instead, he could have been clearing the area and letting the fugitives nicely box themselves into a service hangar, with a plane that shouldn't even work, and isn't even necessary.

It's already an international incident and Tony is working under the authority of an international treaty. So that objection doesn't make any sense at all.

It really doesn't matter that Bucky is guilty as heck. It is Tony's responsibility to use the resources he has available to minimize the risk of civilian causalities and property damage. You know, the problem the movie led with and the reason for the Accords. And drawing the line in the sand at a civilian airport and bringing humanoid WMDs was neither moral nor smart. (Why is a militarized aircraft even at a civilian airport?)

And for the record, I'm not on Team Steve either. I'm on Team MCU Movies Get Stupider the More You Think About Them.

It also was stupid for Steve to sit around with his thumb up his asshole for hours because he needs a costume and shield to chase after someone who almost certainly wasn't using anything better than business class.
He's not just chasing Zemo, he's also preparing to fight supersoldiers. Even with both him and Bucky being the best, it does make sense for him to get more backup so it's not 2 against 6.

Instead, Tony is making trans-Atlantic flights to bring in a teenager and leer at the teen's aunt in the most important hours of a fugitive investigation
Tony indicates, if you want to believe him, that he does this after Steve brings in the others, including Wanda, which frankly, also makes sense, even if ethically I think he should not be bringing in children, period. Wanda is wildly dangerous as an opponent.

who are in contact with each other
we don't know the sequence of events, but presumably, Steve acts and then Tony responds. If you mean, "maybe these people could have calmed them down" understandable but either they weren't in contact, they had signed the accords meaning that already positioned themselves as oppositional, or they were Barton ~~who is an asshole~~ who fully admits he just wants to cause trouble.

Are these the best ways of handling this? Non. Are these fairly reasonable responses within the film? Mostly. There's a little idiot ball as I've said, but it's not actually the world cup of idiot ball in this moment. The world cup of idiot ball is when Zemo says his plan consists of showing them a video and NONE of those three decide to not watch the video. And also when Steve decides to lie to Tony before admitting the truth just to ratchet up the bullshit.

Instead, he could have been clearing the area
The area is clear of people, just not stuff. They evacuate the airport. This is in the movie.
with a plane that shouldn't even work, and isn't even necessary.
Its the plane tony and co came there in? Tony did dis-activate the other transportation, just not the one he intended on taking Steve and co in on? Which makes sense, lmao?

So that objection doesn't make any sense at all.
No once Steve and co escape, he is told he's off the case chasing them. It does not make sense to dis-activate the plane then, unless he wants people other than him to get to them.

It is Tony's responsibility to use the resources he has available to minimize the risk of civilian causalities and property damage.
So as we discovered the only issue is property damage in this situation yes? And property damage itself is not the issue with the accords, it's unauthorized property damage from a private entity, which....he was authorized at the time of the fight by an international entity as you said. Bringing in a child isn't moral (and he should get shit for that), but bringing in other superpowered folks is entirely smart and moral when Wanda is involved, lmao.

[ SECRET POST #5236 ]

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