[ SECRET POST #5241 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5241 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 16 secrets from Secret Submission Post #750.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

01. https://i.imgur.com/1f5RqbB.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

Screwball comedy, basically.

The other type is more similar to enemy-to-lovers.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

I think screwball is what people are going for when they write this trope, but they don't seem to really understand the appeal of screwball. Which is a shame, really.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, this one. Like The Philadelphia Story, where it's flirt-bickering.

There are a few fandom writers that nail this in canon enemies-to-friends or -lovers and I just love when it's done in character.

[(Anonymous)]

I feel this secret.

I think in alot of ways the writers that don't understand this is due to them thinking there has to be 'a winner' to the arguing / bantering.

[sparklywalls]

I think the line for me with this is I'm turned off if I get "he's just pulling your hair because he likes you!" vibes whereas one of the reasons Benedict/Beatrice works for me is that I got the sense that their arguing was a turn on for both of them, they were just holding off admitting it and it never really gets portrayed as malicious.

I hate "he's mean because he secretly likes you" but am open to "this person winds you up like nothing else but both of you find it attractive on some level" - I don't know if I'm explaning it well, but there's definitely a distinction for me so I get you OP.

[(Anonymous)]

The thing that gets me about Benedick and Beatrice is that, generally, they behave with some respect for each other. They don't talk each other down about anything except "oh she/he annoys the crap out of me", and then they proceed to demonstrate that annoyance so, valid. But the way they talk about each other to others is respectful, regardless of whether or not the other person is even present.

[sparklywalls]

Thank you anon, you articulated more of what I feel about this where I failed to find the way to express it! And the respect thing is 100% needed for it to work for me. As soon as I get a sense that one half or both halves of a pairing are belittling the other and there's no attempt to establish an undercurrent of respect, I'm gone.

I'm definitely not an opposites attract/wanting to verbally spar kind of person when it comes to my real lived experience in a relationship, but in fiction it can be pretty fun in the right hands.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, and as soon as things get really serious, Benedick is 100% on Beatrice's side, no quibbling or teasing.

[tabaqui]

Agree - quick, witty banter where they're both enjoying themselves, and nobody is being put down or belittled is *fun*. Nasty snarking that is mostly low blows and ugly little jibes is *not* fun.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know, I rewatched the Empire Strikes Back and the sudden kiss while in Hoth came across as creepy

[(Anonymous)]

Well, Leia was kissing her brother on Hoth, so... yeah. A bit creepy.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh come on. She didn't know he was her brother, nor did he. They had no idea at all.

[(Anonymous)]

Nayrt

It's not a creepy action by either of the fictional characters but it's a creepy thing for the viewer to experience and it's weird that it was included

[(Anonymous)]

SA

It was included because Lucas didn't come up with the idea of them being siblings until later.

AYRT

[(Anonymous)]

I notice you didn't refute my assertion

Re: AYRT

[(Anonymous)]

I agreed with your assertion that the kiss on Hoth was creepy, as incest tends to be.

[(Anonymous)]

I feel like there's numerous ways to do a pairing that fights/bickers constantly. But it's definitely better if the writer understands which type they're writing. I mean, there's the enemies-to-lovers version, where the fighting can (and probably should) be quite harsh, at least in the beginning.

Then there's the "we're at cross purposes" version. Mulder and Scully are a classic example of this. They largely want the same things, and they care about and respect each other, but their perception of they work they share differs staunchly in some ways. So like, it's basically their job to argue with each other (as long as the arguing is in pursuit of something and not predominantly a detriment). Ben and Leslie from Parks & Rec begin with this dynamic, as well, though they phase out of it relatively quickly.

Then there's the "they secretly kind of enjoy fighting/bickering with each other" version.

And probably a few more versions as well. Overall I just feel like there needs to be a reason why they fight/argue/bicker, and the nature of how they fight/argue/bicker has to make emotional/psychological sense when considered in conjunction with the why of it.

[meadowphoenix]

While I agree that Benedict/Beatrice is gold tier, I think I just need it to not cross a line. The line is different depending on the type of fighting, but I just need to know the shape of love that develops is makes sense and avoids tropes I dislike. There's needs to be some degree of believable respect at the end.


But i disagree on the intelligent/intelligent fighting. I've read some dumb/intelligent bickering that was so great. But that's much harder to do without frustrating your audience.

eta: If Archie weren't so sexist/shitty, Archie and Edith would be a good example of bickering from two different speeds of mental processing.

[(Anonymous)]

I used to love this trope, but have fallen out of it for lack of good material. Writers don't seem to understand the both characters need to be in on the same joke, and not make the bickering overly nasty. It's supposed to be fun(ny).

[(Anonymous)]

I guess I'm in the minority here but I'm not a Han Solo fan and I'd never put Han/Leia in the same class as Beatrice and Benedick.

[(Anonymous)]

I've gone sour on the dynamic because so often it's done poorly and it just comes accross as two people who don't enjoy being around each other until finally the lady cracks and kisses the gent.

B/B tho, that's some good shit.

[(Anonymous)]

Beatrice/Benedick is the gold standard for "we annoy the shit out of each other but also love the challenge of arguing" type of romantic bickering.

Elizabeth/Darcy is gold standard for enemies-to-lovers type of romantic bickering because the more they do it the more they're lowkey like "fuck, I actually enjoy arguing with you."

[(Anonymous)]

Oh man I looooved their dynamic in much ado about nothing. I like this kind of relationship where they are on the same wavelength but have this lighthearted back and forth banter. Not too overly sappy and not malicious, but a nice in between is my ideal kind of relationship.