[ SECRET POST #5252 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5252 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 41 secrets from Secret Submission Post #752.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[meadowphoenix]

Honestly, this is funny to me because at its core the Marvel supes are a bunch vigilantes so "thinks the rules don't apply to him/her" is like......a core preeminent thought process lmao. There is in fact NO MOVIE in the MCU canon in which the protagonist follows applicable rules the entire time, and MULTIPLE MOVIES wherein the main theme is to say "fuck the rules". For Tony specifically there are multiple movies in which him having the answers is like the solution to the main conflict.

So be specific! What rules? Who else is following those rules?

I understand not wanting that behavior to be validated, but the only way that your philosophy can coherently present itself is not about "rules" but about "values" or "ethics." Personally I think his values and ethics are far more coherent and valuable with vigilante ethos than the others *shrug* and that this secret could literally be written about steve save the "spoiled" and "rich" and "first iron man movie" portions.

[(Anonymous)]

+3,000

[(Anonymous)]

+1

Also, it seems someone here is bored and decided to revive old MCU wank.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

And I hate Tony Stark (both in comics and the MCU).

[(Anonymous)]

As ever, thank you for being articulate, moderate, and accurate in your defense of this character. I'm glad someone's doing it. I sure as fuck don't have the patience.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, no. Steve doesn't try to dictate for everyone else (except in the midst of battle where he does take charge because he's a soldier), he wants everyone to be able to have a say. And Steve cares about people and pays attention to individuals in a way Tony just doesn't. And Steve thinks things through and actually worries about consequences. Tony acts without thinking and then regrets and then goes back to acting without thinking again.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, he doesn't care about international borders or about countries having some sort of an oversight over him. There are people living in those countries and he doesn't care what they want.

What individuals get Steve's attention and don't get Tony's? I guess we're talking MCU here and not the comics or the animated series. You're stating your points without any specifics like they're facts.

[(Anonymous)]

Pretty much everyone in Civil War who didn't agree with him, for starters.

[(Anonymous)]

Everyone what? Agree with whom?

[meadowphoenix]

Steve doesn't try to dictate for everyone else
bb, when deciding what to do with SHIELD and it's Hydra infestation, he very much dictated. And considering he knew that SHIELD had spies who were not hydra out in the world, because he was one of them, his "let's dump all the files" was not "thinking about consequences"! Or "caring." Maybe it was "deciding that a few dying was worth it." Either way those spies didn't get a say! Hell, not telling tony about his parents was a very "tony doesn't really matter much here" choice! You can say, well he had a good reason, but hell I could say that for Tony and ULTRON of all fucking things, AND that Tony's underlying reasoning was 100% correct, but that doesn't make his robot army program justified, and reasons won't make it justified for Steve thinking through the whole conundrum exactly zero amount.

except in the midst of battle where he does take charge because he's a soldier
this is a nitpick, but that is not the act of a soldier. soldiers aren't in charge unless they have an title that allows for it. and tony is the one who indicates that Steve's "in charge", lmao. but i guess tony shouldn't have made that choice for everyone else? and therefore steve definitely shouldn't have accepted it for everyone else!

Steve thinks things through and actually worries about consequences
WHAT! hahahahhahahahahahaha. This is straight up against characterization, especially in CA1. I don't even have a problem with that in CA1, I would get court-martialed for my bestie too, but it's straight up against all characterization to suggest that he considered the consequences of trying to save bucky. He didn't even consider the consequences of the becoming a part of a military org who controls your life (or frankly the serum with any great consideration). At BEST he has one (1) consequence he thinks is the sole consequence, and he'll act on that one to the exclusion of all others, but that's not actually thinking through consequences, like at all. In CA2, he's pretty blatant about believing that the "right" thing trumps consequences or other reasonable considerations. He's got the right spirit there, he a little confused tho, but being right clearly shouldn't be an excuse since again Tony is also pretty much always correct about future events.

Tony acts without thinking and then regrets and then goes back to acting without thinking again.
Unfortunately Tony actually thinks about consequences a whole bunch, that's his problem. IM3 is the literal embodiment of this, and even when Pepper doesn't like it, the writing indicates that Tony paranoid actions are correct (which undercuts the theme but whatever. i, like you, would have preferred his paranoid actions NOT be correct, so that when he destroyed all the suits for pepper I wouldn't be sitting there like...didn't they save all y'all multiple times?). IM1 and IM2 and Avengers1 also suggest that his ability to quickly act through multiple scenarios for a solution is apparently his actual asset. In fact, Civil War is basically Tony only thinking about consequences and Steve, before we even get to Bucky, deciding to very much not think about them at all (I still would like any one of the people who think not signing the Accords was a good idea to tell me how ethically he was going to deal with the local LE when they catch him in the middle of some city trying to hero, when they all think he's going to cause deaths and damage. In the movies he has no consideration for their lives sooooooo). You might not like how he acts regarding it, but since I don't like how Steve acts regarding it and *shrug* of the two people Tony is considering more than Steve.

[(Anonymous)]

Wow, could you be any more of a condescending ass? Tony stans really, really don't like the idea that anyone could think he might have made mistakes or done anything wrong.

[meadowphoenix]

Yes, of course I could have been more condescending. I could have thought OP's comment regarding Steve was trolling and instead I took it seriously to the extent that it merited it. Except for me laughing at the idea that Steve thinks about consequences (which is funny I mean that's just not how he's characterized at all, why even say it). This wasn't condescending at all. Anon suggested something in response to my comment, and I refuted it. You last sentence tho....I actually mention something I think Tony does wrong. So, idk move past tone if that's blocking you. I also think Tony bringing Peter into Civil War was wildly unethical (because I do actually think reasons aren't good enough for justification). hth.

[(Anonymous)]

Nah, you are being a condescending dick, but that's to be expected, I guess.

[(Anonymous)]

wow, name calling. You can't just not shit on other people, can you? You make Steve fans look bad.

[(Anonymous)]

Like Tony fans are so, so innocent.

[meadowphoenix]

Real question: what's the point of this when a) you know I don't think your opinion about my tone matters and b) you don't want to respond to anything I've said? What the end goal, bb? Why keep responding?

[(Anonymous)]

Why don't you stop responding then? If it's such good advice, you should take it yourself.

[meadowphoenix]

bb, you gotta follow the course of conversation. I don't care if you embarrass yourself and I'm quite happy to respond to your ridiculousness. I love "no you" responses because they mean I can respond with all the seriousness they deserve.

[(Anonymous)]

You really can't handle people not thinking he's the best ever huh?

[meadowphoenix]

He's not the best ever (Rhodey is the best ever, tied by Sam), but I do think people should consider his actual faults not the ones they've made up in their heads. And I definitely think they should not try to defend Steve on the same mental interior basis. And I do not know, understand how to be fairly consistent with criticism across characters.

[(Anonymous)]

People do bring up his actual faults, and every time you'll sit there and explain with 500 words how those aren't actually faults and he's completely justified in every tiny thing he does. You can like him, but you really can't sit there and lecture people about consistent arguments, or 'taking everything into consideration' when you're not doing that either. You're biased as hell but think you aren't.

[meadowphoenix]

hmmm, lmao. If I'm not being consistent or too biased, you can show me where! We luckily have the same text. Go for it! You know I like to talk! Otherwise, well, lmao.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't bother. It's obvious that they are not engaging in good faith and just trolling at this point.

[(Anonymous)]

I think you hit the nail on the head.

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly I'm not sure any of the main MCU leads actually think through their actions, they just do them and then have to try and fix the consequences.