fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #768 ]

⌈ Secret Post #768 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Avatar: The Last Airbender; The Blue Spirit]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 150 secrets from Secret Submission Post #110.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

To me it's sort of like Citizen Kane or 2001, even if the plot's not your bit, you have to respect the technical and artistic achievements, which are much less subjective. The Wall-E script had to convey everything that was going on character-wise (including all the normal shots and stage direction) for 45 minutes without any vocal inflection or body language, and it did exactly that extremely subtly and flawlessly.

Yes, this explanation exactly! Great examples as well; Kane was so impressive in its fluidity that not even the wrath of William Randolph Hearst could stop the Academy from awarding it Best Screenplay. 2001 only lost to one of the all-time great screenplays in The Producers, which is not bad for a piece described by Kubrick himself as "the single most uncommunicative document ever written."

You'd think that, when discussing the merits of an award for screenplay writing, people would take the time necessary to read the damn things.

You'd think that, when discussing the merits of an award for screenplay writing, people would take the time necessary to read the damn things.

And not even just that, the scripts reveal so much more about the directorial and actor(ial?) intent as well. Reading the script for the Dark Knight was really the clincher in convinicing me Heath Ledger deserves every single award he's winning (dunno if you've read it, so for just one teeny example: in the scene with the whole pencil thing, the line: Gambol: "You think you can steal from us and just walk away?!" Joker: "Yeah." Gambol: "I'm putting the word out, 500 grand for this clown dead...", the "yeah"? Improved. It's this one word line but we get SO MUCH ABOUT the character and it was all Heath. That performance was bloody genius.) You just get such a richer experience, knowing where they were coming from.

"even if the plot's not your bit, you have to respect the technical and artistic achievements"

I just had to pop in and say I agree with this SO much. Personally, I didn't like Wall-E all that much. It was cute and all, and it had a nice concept, it's just not a movie that I could see a second time and expect to be pretty entertained. However, I have the most insane amount of respect for it, and I think that anyone who can't see how great it was from a non-entertainment perspective is pretty much a moron who shouldn't be criticizing nomination choices.

...just when you think the hyperbole on this movie can't get any worse, someone has to whip out a Citizen Kane comparison.

Oh for the love. I'm so fucking sick of pretentious idiots who think they're ~so much cooler~ and ~so much smarter~ than the rest of us silly little sheep because they DISLIKE somehing. Yes, I like Wall-E, it's my favorite Pixar movie, but I never said that in my post, I said that you had to respect the script and the technical achievements. I don't know if you've ever taken a film class or watched a documentary or even a DVD special feature on sound or scriptwriting but there are some things that are NOT subjective and the technical achievments of both Wall-E and Citizen Kane are groundbreaking and you have to respect that, even if you don't like the movie. The Jazz Singer and Lawrence of Arabia also were brilliantly technical but one was mind-blowingly racist and the other was an hour and a half too long. Sue me, I brought up movies I like. How dare I enjoy things.

I actually did enjoy parts of the film, I thought it was very cute at times. But I'm afraid I don't find it terribly ground-breaking or worthy of comparison to Citizen Kane. Kane did things with film narrative and camera technique that had never been done before. Wall-E might have terrific sound design and an exceptional screenplay. But I fail to see how it did anything groundbreaking on the level that Citizen Kane did.

As far as the attitude, it's funny because the whole reason this is an anonymous post is that I've been flamed by Wall-E fans for daring to suggest the movie was anything less than perfect. I'm not saying disliking it, but pointing out things I didn't care for and daring to suggest it wasn't the best film of the year. So it cuts both ways.

Dude, you're allowed to have an opinion, you're just not allowed to be a condescending twit about it. That's what the "attitude" was about. I don't like it when people actively call other people stupid or imply that they're pop culture sheep for liking things they don't particularly enjoy.

As for comparing Wall-E to Citizen Kane, that would be entirely idiotic as they're extraordinarily different movies from different times in cinema about vastly different things. It's not like there's an Objective Movie Score of Goodness, and frankly I think if you can pick a Greatest Movie Of All Time you just haven't seen enough movies. But they did both do new and inventive things for their respective times. As did 2001, by the way, and the myriad other examples I pointed out. Calling something innovative doesn't necissarily mean I think it's the best movie of all time. Personally, yes, I think it was the best movie of the year, but I recognize that space opera, robots in love, and the environmental message of the movie might not have been everyone's cup of tea (I didn't much care for the cockroach, myself). That said, it did some things technically that you have to respect. Maybe it didn't invent deep focus or the high- and low- angle shot or do the things with lighting that Welles did with Kane, but what they did with sound and script, especially in the first forty minutes, is extremely impressive and innovative.

Condescending twits... like the people in response to the initial secret who imply anyone who doesn't heap praise on this movie doesn't have a soul or doesn't know the first thing about movies? Maybe it's my bad for saying it the way I did, but it gets a little frustrating when people who dare to think the movie had FLAWS(not bashing it, but just saying it wasn't perfect) are attacked.

I agree the work in the film is technically impressive. However, I'm not sure I'd call it innovative. Short animated features have been doing this sort of thing for years. 9(the original short) and More are two that jump to mind that accomplish their goals in similar fashion, and Pixar's had a few shorts like that as well. I can attest from experience, telling a story and conveying emotion when your characters don't speak(at least not in the conventional sense) is probably one of, if not THE hardest thing to do in writing, and I really do think my issues with the movie start after we get other characters involved. I'm not sure I'd call it innovative.

Burtt's sound work in the movie is tremendous... I love how he invents a new soundscape for every film he does... but I'm not sure it was, on the whole, that much more inventive than his work on Star Wars. He had to do more with it, quite true. And I think Burtt's work conveys more emotion than the conventional VAs later in the movie. Then again, people have always had an easy time connecting with R2-D2, another character whose emotions were conveyed through Burtt's work.

The real test, of course, is to see what we're saying several years down the line. I think Wall-E could be an important step in seeing animation branch out more. If the movie helps animation continue to grow as a genre, I'm ultimately all for it.

Personally speaking, though, I never expected Wall-E to get the Best Picture nod, anyway. Just like the New York Times developing a separate Young Adult Bestseller section, the Academy likely threw the Best Animated Picture bone to keep the "kid movies" from taking attention away from the "serious work". Maybe Wall-E will, if nothing else, start to change that.

[ SECRET POST #768 ]

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