fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #776 ]

[ SECRET POST #776 ]

⌈ Secret Post #776 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

[Half-Life 2]

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102.

[Quantum Leap]

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103.

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104.

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105.

[Leverage]

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106.

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107.

[Criminal Minds]

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108.

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109.

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110.

[Repo]

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111.

[Lego Batman]

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112.

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113.

[The Father Dowling Mysteries]

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114.

[My Name is Earl]

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115.

[The L Word]

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116.

[Andy Kaufman/Robin Williams]

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117.

[Bones]

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118.

[Nodame Cantabile]

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119.

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120.

[Patrick Wolf]

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121.

[M*A*S*H]

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122.

[Tyler Perry(as Madea) / Tori Spelling]

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123.

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124.

[DBSK, Yunho]

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125.

[Final Fantasy Tactics A2]

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126.

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127.

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128.

[The 5000 Fingers of Dr. T]

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129.

[Blades of Glory]

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130.

[Anthony Stewart Head - Buffy/Rocky Horror/Repo!]

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131.

[Naruto]

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132.

[Big Business]

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133.

[Cowards]

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134.

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135.

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136.

[Seto Kaiba and Mokuba Kaiba; Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters]

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137.

[Lily Loveless/Kathryn Prescott/Megan Prescott, Skins]

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138.

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139.

[Star Trek: TNG]

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140.

[Yukan Club]

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141.

[Phantom of the Paradise]

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142.

[Sora wo Kakeru Shoujo]

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143.

[The Tomorrow People, New Series]

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144.

[Avatar]

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145.

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146.

[BtVS/Ats]

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147.

[Greg Ayres/Kaoru Hitachiin]

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148.

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149.

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150.

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151.

[ST:DS9, Garak/Bashir and Ziyal]

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152.

[drop dead fred]

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153.

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154.

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155.

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156.

[Reduced Shakespeare Company, The Complete Works of Shakespeare (Abridged)]

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157.

[Tropic Thunder; Robert Downey Jr.]

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158.

[Silent Hill]

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159.

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160.

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161.

[College Humor: Jake & Amir]

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162.

[Top Chef Season 5]

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163.

[Gurren Lagann, Evangelion]

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164.

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165.

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166.

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167.

[Ouran High School Host Club/Reborn!, Mori/Chrome]

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168.

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169.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 075 secrets from Secret Submission Post #111.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

103. If I kept seeing Daddy Winchester, I would probably be more keen to mutter loudly, "Christ, what an asshole." But I'm sure the actor is a lovely person.

113. Her neck is doing funny bad things.

123. I haven't played MGS4 yet, but I was actually surprised with how cool the female characters in MGS are compared to similar depictions of my gender in the same medium/genre. But I haven't played MGS4 yet, so I can't really fight your analysis with much ammo.

I fucking love Meryl, Sniper Wolf, Naomi, Olga, E.E., Fortune, Paramedic, and The Boss, though. And I don't mind Rose, who along with MGS2's Colonel and Raiden just seems to be a giant metaphor to me, anyway.

Oh, and what about Nastasha?

147. You suck.

I really didn't see much misogyny in MGS4. I mean, yes, Sunny doesn't start opening up until Naomi jumps in, but let's face it. It's not because Naomi is mom-like, or that's the only thing women are good at. It's because Snake and Otacon aren't exactly the best parental figures you could hope for. They do they're best, truly, but I can't say I was impressed with them. ~~sorry, fandom~~

And Meryl pretty much kicked ass in the game. I mean, serious ass. I... I can't think of anything negative to say about how awesome Meryl was.

Even Rose did some pretty hardcore sacrificing in the game. Problem being is that it isn't revealed until the end what her motivations were, and fandom tends to be too stupid to wrap their brains around it that late into the story. Really though, I can't imagine anyone with the slightest bit of a conscience or a heart would do any different than she did.

First of all, I'm a huge saver, so Rose wasn't ever that annoying to me because I wouldn't save just when I was turning off the game, or when I was anticipating a big boss fight or dramatic scene. Secondly, considering the meta themes of the game, I felt that the player was supposed to feel somewhat hostile to Rose. After all, she represents Raiden's fictional (but real to him) life, and Raiden's independence from the player. This is naturally against our own interests.

Finally, even though I liked Raiden, MAN did I also think of him as a nasal-voiced, pissy little punk. So Rose bugging Raiden wasn't irritating, it was justice.

Oh, God. I loved MGS2 Raiden, but he WAS a whiny little punk. Rose always hounding him just made me think that she was this pretty, contradictory lil' woman. Not only did she represent all the lies floating around him, she represented his chance of normalcy.

Then again, I liked MGS4 Raiden. But unlike the fanbase, who went all sparklypoo over the new badass ninja version of him, I couldn't help but feel some resentment towards him for running away from Rose when she needed him the most. I mean, yeah, he kicked total ass, but he was still an abandoning douchebag.

Rose is kinda a paradox. She represents Raiden's best chance to cut himself off from the needs and control of the player by immersing himself in his own reality, but she is also a complete deceit in herself. Towards the end of MGS2 we don't even know how much of her is reality, only the choice that Raiden makes in regards to her. =

Hee, part of the "problem" with Raiden was his voice-actor's ability to read some lines in the most bitchy, snarky ways that make you kinda want Snake or Stillman to slap him up a bit. But I also think that he's supposed to incite these feelings. I don't think the player was ever supposed to feel entirely comfortable with Raiden... and say what you want, at least Raiden let his personality be known.

I ended up really liking the guy, and I found him one of the most dynamic characters in the series, based on how much he grows from his first introduction to the end of Metal Gear Solid 2.

Anyways, can't talk too much about MGS4 because I haven't played it yet, though I have seen the first few hours (but the players aren't nearly as into calling CODEC as I am, so I have to play it myself).

I think MGS4 delivered simultaneous win and fail as regards misogyny; the B&Bs were appalling, Meryl and Mei Ling were win (but both Mei Ling and Naomi had to whiten up before getting out from behind the codec screen), and as for Naomi - I adored her in MGS1, but I am still not comfortable with her role in MGS4...I'm trying to see it all as just her fucking with people and getting emotionally entangled with them inadvertently, MGS1 all over again, buther genderising of Sunny really hurt my brain. Snake & Otacon being bad parental figures is one thing; Naomi, evil scheming mad-scientist that she is, being a good one is another message entirely and has lots of BECAUSE SHE'S A GIRL subtext that needs stabbing to death. I have a pile of built-up issues there because I grew up without a mother myself, and I saw the whole scenario in MGS4 as basically reinforcing all the messages that make that particular family situation IRL more difficult than it should be.

As for Rose, sorry, but fail. Even if her motivations were a-okay, she's presented horribly; as eye candy & emotional support to the player, and then at the end of someone who wants to be a wife & mother rather than a character in her own right. Everything about her screams 'marked gender'. The only win there is the implicit comparison between her family and Snake & Otacon's; that even when nuclear families finally become an option, they're still not the only option.

But see, that's your opinion, and I don't agree with it. The B&B's, well, who cares? They were throw away bad guys, there to fight again, learn their backstory for about five to ten minutes of verbal diarrhea, and then never to be heard/seen again. That happens to bad guys in a lot of games, male and female alike, so I can't really see that so much as misogyny as it is just a cliche.

And I didn't really see Naomi and Sunny interactions as Naomi as being a mother type figure. It seemed more like Naomi just being the first woman that Sunny's ever really been exposed to. And while the situation may not have sit well with you due to personal experiences, you can't expect your view of it to be that way for everyone. Because I certainly didn't see it in that regard.

Also, I don't see how Rose really failed. They could've definitely rounded out that story arch a bit to make it a little less sudden at the end, but Rose's reactions to everything were perfectly human and believable. And really? "Marked gender?" You have to understand that Rose, unlike just about everyone else, had no real connections (except maybe Roy, and well...), was pregnant and defenseless, and had a fiance that was slowly going insane/becoming horribly depressed, drunk half the time, and having random bouts of severe violence. Who wouldn't be scared? And who wouldn't do what was best for themselves and their unborn child? Her decisions during that time were, while not ideal to her, completely reasonable, and pretty much her best option. And I rather liked quite a few of her codecs, what with their tapping on the fourth wall at times.

Really, I do see where you're coming from in regards to a few things. But I really can't agree with them, for the most part. So, I guess this is agree to disagree.

I agree about the B&Bs being throwaway bad guys, much like the Cobras in MGS3, but there's the thing - the Cobras weren't ridiculously sexualised, and were portrayed as far from physically perfect. A group of throwaway female villains like the Cobras would've been heavenly, imo; a bunch of quirky older women with fuck-all backstories, there to challenge and ultimately aid you, throwing their lives away with final explody honour? I would have loved it. But instead, we got teh pron, and the idea that by killing these pooooor victims we were just putting them out of their misery.

Rose having no real connections and being pregnant and defenceless is Rose being of marked gender. It doesn't matter whether she did the 'right thing' or not; either way, everything about her role in the story is defined by the fact that she has a vagina. She has connections to Raiden and to Campbell because she has a vagina. Meryl judges her connection with Campbell harshly, because she has a vagina. She has no other connections because Metal Gear only ever passes the Bechdel Test once (Naomi & Sunny) - so her vagina-ed-ness prevents her from interacting with people. And her ultimate intention is to be 'the wife and mother this family needs', because she has a vagina.

Male characters in adventure stories are never so plot-constricted by their genitalia; 'marked gender' means basically that having a male gender is a neutral position which doesn't affect someone's plot role, but having a female gender frequently does. And that's misogyny, whether Rose did the right thing or not. Something being misogynistic doesn't prevent it from being enjoyable - otherwise it'd be hard to enjoy anything in pop culture - but even misogyny that makes in-character sense is still misogyny.

Yeah, um... Please. You're so focused on her vagina, no wonder you miss her character. I'm sorry that there's someone in the MGS canon that actually settles into the category of a normal and average human being, and used what little resources she had available to her to protect her child. I'm sorry that her being a mother connects to her vagina, and therefore somehow makes her fail. And I'm sorry you seem so crazily bitter about it.

So, I'll just end this conversation with you right now. Because you are coming off as way too headstrong, and it's to the point of being incredibly obnoxious. While I don't think that's how you were trying to behave, it's still how it is.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #776 ]

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