[ SECRET POST #5342 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5342 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 36 secrets from Secret Submission Post #765.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

The only substantially problematic ship I have is Starker. Ironically, I don't think it's nearly as bad as everyone else seems to. If Peter's legal, it's written as loving, and both participants are enthusiastically consenting, I honestly find it a lot more "healthy" and "wholesome" than some of my other ships that fly under the radar.

I mean, Johnlock wasn't broadly considered overly controversial, but Sherlock was abusive towards John pretty much from the get-go, and in later seasons John became abusive towards Sherlock.

There's a hot take for you: In my opinion, Johnlock is a dodgier ship than Starker. With Johnlock, you know it's abusive in canon, and it's honestly difficult to write around all of the abusive aspects of their relationship. Whereas Starker just has the look of something that might be abusive. But is it? That depends entirely on what fanfic you're reading.

[pantswarrior]

...This brings an interesting thought to my mind. Why would someone writing Johnlock want to "write around all of the abusive aspects"? If you like the ship, which is shown to be abusive, why whitewash it? (Or are the "antis" so bad that people try to sanitize popular but problematic ships so they don't get hate for writing them as they are? Maybe because it's because I hang out in small/old fandoms - I've somehow never been harassed for any of the sketchy stuff I've written, so I am honestly unfamiliar with how these people operate.)

I mean, my OTP is at the very least borderline abusive. The one character flinches when the other so much as looks at him sharply. I write it this way (and sometimes over the line), because I like the ship for the messiness and instability and the razor's edge they're always walking, not despite it - and the fact that in spite of that, they still manage to get it together and sort things out and when it comes down to it they are still each other's truest friend (as canon puts it). I wouldn't want to handwave away all of that context, and I would be bored to death by a take on it that was just wholesome and fluffy, because it wouldn't be the characters and dynamic I came to love in canon.

(tl;dr: People really sanitize canonically problematic ships they like? ...Why?)

[(Anonymous)]

I roll my eyes at this presumption that people are sanitizing their ship to avoid the antis' ire. Like, no, hardly any of us are doing that. We write our ships as loving and non-abusive because that's the way we like them. It's really, really not that complicated.

I'd think this would be obvious, especially in cases like Johnlock where the canon dynamic between the characters changed and became way more dysfunctional and abusive over time.

[pantswarrior]

Seeing as I haven't watched more than the first 3 episodes of Sherlock and barely remember them, it wouldn't be obvious to me, so who's making presumptions?

I asked if people were doing it to avoid the antis' ire because people here complain about antis a lot and mention them apparently doing things like doxxing people who write problematic ships and I have no idea how prevalent it is because I have never encountered it. It wasn't assuming that was why, just musing on possible reasons.

My question was, in essence: Why would someone not write a ship they like the way they are in canon - and if they don't like the way they are in canon, why do they ship it? But in the case of Johnlock it would make sense if the relationship changed and BECAME problematic and the fans of it early on wanted to return to the days of it being non-problematic. Not having seen much Sherlock, I was not aware that there was a change in the dynamic. So thanks for answering that particular case study, at least.

[(Anonymous)]

Why would someone not write a ship they like the way they are in canon - and if they don't like the way they are in canon, why do they ship it?

You don't have to get it. It's a well-documented fandom phenomenon at this point, though, and implying people only do it because they're being socially cowed comes across as slightly oblivious and low-key superior.

The simplest and most obvious answer to why people pursue the kind of fiction they pursue is almost always, "Because it's what they like." When you overlook personal preference as the most likely motivation, you're putting forth an implied assumption that other people are less independently minded than you are.

so who's making presumptions?

Still you, but go off I guess.

[pantswarrior]

Again, I wasn't presuming anything. I was asking because people here seem to think antis are really obnoxious about problematic ships so it seemed like a possible explanation. I guess I should not have floated any possible explanations. I thought of floating a couple others that had nothing to do with antis, but the comment was getting long and I thought that it was possible someone would think the other theories were judgy. I thought that theory was relatively non-judgy. Apparently I was wrong if it inspired this much defensiveness.

And again, my question was basically "If you don't like the ship dynamic in canon, why do you ship it?" which I don't really get (except as relates to Johnlock because you explained that), but neither am I judging. I have been documented throughout my fandom days as being more on the "strict" side when it comes to canon compliance than most folks, but fandom is supposed to be fun, so whatever people like to do, not going to complain about it.

If you felt that I was complaining or judging, I genuinely am sorry that my poor phrasing caused that. Honestly was just curious as to why people like doing a thing a particular way because I just don't relate.