[ SECRET POST #5359 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5359 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 24 secrets from Secret Submission Post #767.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

DA

There's no point in arguing about norms, because more than one norm can exist at once in the situation. Living in an apartment is normative and living in a house is normative, even if you can't do both at once. Tagging is normative and saying "read at your own risk" is also normative, whether or not people like that or not.

If you want to argue what should be a norm then that's your opinion, and that's a conversation that can be had, but there is no conversation to be had if you're denying that "no tags here; don't like don't read" is not one of the normative ways to post fic. Because then it's just like ok, be factually wrong then. Nowhere to go from there.

[meadowphoenix]

There’s every point in arguing about norms. And that you’ve given that example means that tbqh, you don’t seem to know what norms are. The norm at this point in time is that people live in buildings. Things being common is not the same as something being a norm. Norm, as it’s being used in my comments, is actually not short for normal but normative social value. Norms have a prescriptive value to them that common circumstances don’t. It was common that women worked during WWII in the US, that was not the norm as those women swiftly found out at the end of the war.

Now that you know what norms are, maybe you can understand when I am saying that AO3 deciding to both force content archive warnings and allow for one of them being “no archive warning” meant that they understood there was a norm of tagging so much that they forced it, but wanted to counter that norm by allowing a “read at your own risk” tag.

[(Anonymous)]

I have to say as a queer person who grew up in the bible belt? Norms are kind of awful. If someone says "this is a norm," I always NEED to question it and challenge it. I don't like norms. Norms have never worked in my favor, and all the oppressive norms I was raised with were paranoid and sex-negative and queerphobic, so I associate that with all sexual censorship, and that gives me hives.

Fandom is great, because there are really no universally-agreed-upon norms. I hope there never will be. But AO3's tagging system is honestly pretty good for helping people filter out stuff. Way better than fanfiction.net or Wattpad. And that's really all we can ask.

[(Anonymous)]

*DA, not the same person you were replying to

[meadowphoenix]

I've said nothing about norms being reasonable, because their reasonableness isn't really the point here. Norms can be useful or not useful depending on your perspective, purpose, social space, and habits (and frankly there are likely P L E N T Y of norms in the spaces you like to be in, that you like. Some norms in a lot of queer spaces? "Don't out people" and "You use the name/pronouns people give you." I'm willing to bet that you're fine with those, as am I). Bible belt norms are made from shitty perspectives so no surprise that they have shitty norms, but a ton of norms are just about different perspectives and have both pros and cons like indirect v. direct ask culture or conversational v. non-conversational stranger interactions or generational v. small family structures.

because there are really no universally-agreed-upon norms
I mean, "agree-upon" as a sign of deliberateness isn't necessary for a norm to appear (norms can form from habit and tend to in fandom spaces), and otherwise this statement is false. There are plenty of norms in fandom-spaces, that's just how social spaces operate. Agree that tagging on AO3 is from my perspective really nice. It's just that that sentiment is entirely irrelevant to this conversation.