fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #781 ]

[ SECRET POST #781 ]

⌈ Secret Post #781 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 240 secrets from Secret Submission Post #112.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - bandwagons ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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103) *sighs* You know, this comes up a lot in certain parts of fandom and I remain TOTALLY UNCLEAR as to what people expected Mai to do? As Azula explicitly says during "The Boiling Rock" (seconds before trying to kill Mai with a bolt of lightning) there are consequences to going against Azula's wishes. Once Azula made it clear that she wasn't going to allow the exchange to go as planned, what do you want for Mai to have done, precisely? Run over to get Tom Tom, only to have Azula shoot her in the back? Try to argue with Azula, who would have then incapacitated her and gone ahead with her own plans?

Mai had no reason to believe Aang or the others would hurt her brother and EVERY reason to believe Azula didn't give a shit what happened to him either way. I think it would have been both stupid and OOC for her to have made some pointless, boneheaded move in that scene to contradict what Azula wanted.

BUT HEY! That's just me.

128) Now I'm wondering what AU's you're reading! ^_-

154) Erika's one of the nicest ladies in the comics community, and I personally enjoy her work very much. I only hope no one's cruel enough to tell her about this secret.

Edited 2009-02-24 21:59 (UTC)

Yes. This. I said the same thing farther down, but I have always wondered what people have always expected Mai to do. If she went against Azula, everybody was in danger, including her family.

Someone said elsewhere that Mai may have just trusted Azula to take care of things -- I think that's also a valid way to look at it. But yeah, whether it was "Azula's going to do what she wants and there's no way I can stop her without putting Tom Tom in danger" OR "Azula knows what she's doing and if I don't work with her I'LL put Tom Tom in danger"....either way, Mai did what seemed like the smart, safe thing, and I do not at all blame her.

I'd never heard that one, but that does make sense and I could see Mai thinking that way. Either way, I don't blame her either. She played it safe and in the end, everything was fine. I can't find it in me to dislike her over something like that when there are characters in the show that did a lot worse.

Haha yes! Like Zuko! WHO HIRED AN ASSASSIN TO KILL AANG XD

I mean, I love Zuko to iddy biddy pieces, obviously, but the fandom double-standard kind of blows my mind a little.

I know what you mean. I like Zuko too, but my God, he did so much worse than Mai ever did. But he 'redeemed' himself (and he really did, so I'm not saying he didn't, y'know?), so all is forgiven. Mai saving Zuko will NEVER be enough. NEVER.

I remember watching TBR the first time and saying to my friend, "Mai just saved Zuko AND Sokka AND Suki AND Hakoda and EVERYONE IN FANDOM IS STILL GOING TO HATE HER."

Arg, I hate being right about fandom DX

If Mai hadn't done anything, the entire world probably would have been doomed. STILL. She didn't act heroic enough in the beginning! Let's hate her forever!

I know, right? And no matter how hard you try to explain, it never gets through. Ever. Depressing stuff.

Re: 103

ali-wildgoose.livejournal.com - 2009-02-24 22:48 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 103

lalachoy.livejournal.com - 2009-02-24 22:50 (UTC) - Expand

But, but, she stole Zuko from Katara!!!!!

Seriously, can you think of any other reason why a lot of fans don't like her?

I'm in the Stargate Atlantis fandom and there's one probable-basement dweller who bashes Torri Higginson (she's old, ugly, a hag, Torri's in secret 105 of today's post, on the left, would you use any of those words to describe her?) because the character she played was a threat to the idiot's OTP, and whilst not stooping to the idiots level and bashing the actor, plenty of people bash Elizabeth Weir for the same reason.

I'd say it's pretty safe to say that its also true of the Avatar fandom.

As Mai says in an infamous deviation on Deviant Art: "They're just jealous because I'm hitting it"

Dunno if this'll mean much coming from some random stranger, but this comment thread here made me change my mind about that scene. I've always been kind of on the fence about Mai, but that scene did bother me. I had never thought of it the way you guys have presented it here, though, so thanks. It makes a lot more sense now.

(it means a lot <3)

She went against Azula for Zuko. (Unless this scene is showing her character development- which does not impress me that much)

There was Ty Lee. And her uncle. But I guess we can't really have Mai (and everyone connected) in danger in the first episode they're introduced.

Both scenes are steps. They aren't all of it. And both situations were quite different in how they were set up. Her brother wasn't exactly in any immediate danger (Unlike, Zuko about to fall to a certain death). Mai had every reason to believe that turning on Azula would have hurt her brother more then it would help.

Ah, love martyr. So classic.

I've been through this debate before- and if one should use an expression, I would use Mai's "I'm bored", so.. ah. Whatever.

The Mai-trading-Tomtom-scene still made me sad :( I wish somehow the family can reunite and work their issue. How heartbreaking will it be if- let's see- Mai went home, just for formality's sake and everything, and while her parents are awkward and don't really know what to say, her baby brother just glomps and squeals 'Mai!' in that adorable baby voice?

She'll probably brushed it off with snark and all that jazz, but imagine.

She'll probably brushed it off with snark and all that jazz, but imagine.

Honestly, so would I, because that glomping would freaking annoy me. But I am just saying I don't think her actions were particularly callous or done at a complete disrespect to her brother, not that her actions were the right thing or whatever.

That's sort of the point, actually. The baby brother she once traded away (whatever the reason is) is probably the only family member who will physically hug her :D

Don't worry, I get you.

103. Except that would have required watching the same show as the rest of us.

BUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN

See, I wanted to believe that, but the fact that she didn't even try to swipe her brother herself after they called the deal off (thus managing to steal her brother AND keep the hostage while overpowering the Gaang), and actually threw needles at Sokka while he was holding her brother while atop a giant flying bison...well, tells me she didn't really give a shit about Tom-tom.

Srsly, that's what I thought Bryke was getting at--her apathy extended that far, and then Ty Lee dropped in that tidbit about Zuko, and she finally makes an expression that isn't some degree of frowning.

I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything, as I've seen and respect your work in fandom--but I can't help but feel that Mai is being given a free pass for doing something terrible. A lot of the cast has done shitty things, but Mai is pretty much the only person that never made up for them. =\

I think that, in addition to all the much-needed emotional support she provided for Zuko while he was in the Fire Nation, sacrificing herself to save Zuko, Sokka, Suki and Hakoda at the Boiling Rock more than makes up for any apathy she may once have displayed.

In any case, in addition to the various comment threads here in this post, you might want to check out this bit of meta the discussion here inspired. (http://sistermagpie.livejournal.com/177330.html)

Edited 2009-02-25 06:09 (UTC)

....Um. Depends on your perspective. Zuko didn't seem emotionally supported so much as Mai just seemed to be at a loss at what to do with him (not that I can blame her for that, Zuko's high maintenance like a mofo!), and I really doubt she would have saved Sokka/Suki/Hakoda/Her Uncle if Zuko had not been on the gondola with them.

I'm just saying, if they wanted to prove she matured as a character, they could have shown a scene of her thanking Ty Lee for sacrificing herself to save her. Or maybe a scene of her writing a letter to her parents to ask if Tom-Tom ever made it back home or something equally snarky, but at least showing she cares.

I checked the meta, and while insightful, doesn't really address my questions, nor is it backed up by anything solid from the show. However, it is the best explanation I've seen thus far, so I thank you and

sistermagpie for offering me that. It doesn't quite make Mai a likable character (to me), but it's a possibility of understanding her a little more.

♥

Thanks for reading it.:-)

I actually do agree with you that in the beginning her apathy really did extend that far. Like, I think sometimes discussions of how she didn't see what she could do to help imply that Mai is inside really worried about Tom Tom but doesn't think she can do anything, but I don't think that's correct. It's more like her way of dealing with the world is to cut herself off from emotions that much that she really isn't feeling any. If Tom Tom had died, Mai's apathy would have continued and she'd say she didn't care. And since she's not a main character and she's not a character who shows much in the way of feeling, it really is hard to point to anything on the show as proof that she's feeling anything underneath if she even is.

So for me it's just like the simplest way to interpret her is to look at how she's defined by apathy, by not caring about anything to the point of coldly leaving her brother's fate up to somebody else and never turning back. Other people always point out she's the one who "doesn't care" about anything. Zuko, though, she's comfortable saying she cares about. Then in BR, after talking to Zuko, she suddenly does this OOC by fighting against Azula and the FN guards.

I don't think she would have saved the GAang if Zuko hadn't been with them. But not just because Zuko's the one who's her boyfriend. Without Zuko she wouldn't see anything worthy in their cause anyway. It's more, imo, that she's going to jump over to Zuko's side because she believes in him. She's choosing to be more like him in that moment, not apologizing for any former misdeeds or regretting anything that we know about.

Regardless of whether or not I agree, a well-written opinion deserves a well written response. I hope I have been able to give you that much.

I have to say, of all those who would defend Mai, you've done so without so much making excuses as giving a possible interpretation as to why--while this does nothing to endear her to me, it helps to fill in a couple of the gaps, or at the very least, allow me to see it from another possible angle. I really appreciate that!

To be honest, I did not enjoy S3 very much (not just due to the "shipping"), as the writing felt very shoddy in comparison to the previous seasons--Mai is just one of the many characters that seemed to be gypped by it, and I do have my gripes with several of the other characters and the way things were written, so I hope you can see that I'm not trying to mindlessly bash Mai or single her out.

tl;dr--thank you for the rational discussion and not lumping me in with the crazy butthurt shippers. :3

Thanks! I do think it's unfortunate that because some people hate characters because of shipping other people get that accusation when it doesn't fit at all. Sometimes having more understanding of where the characters or the writers were coming from makes you like the character more--sometimes you get it but you still just don't like the character.

Ugh. Character bashing because they get in the way of your ship is utterly petty and lame. There is far more to the show than who is snogging whom--if you're gonna go as far as to hate a character, hate them for the right reasons, not because they're getting face time with your fictional woobie of choice.

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[ SECRET POST #781 ]

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