fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #782 ]

⌈ Secret Post #782 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 07 pages, 165 secrets from Secret Submission Post #112.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Honestly, I think you and I are coming from different positions and different ways of thinking in this.

I personally don't think there is a problem that there are roles that call for a woman as opposed to a man, because men and women are going to bring different things to the role, biologically, socially and other factors, to say that gender should have no effect on a character is kind of weird. While there are things that would and should remain the same, they should be different as well nor is that all that they are it doesn't have no effect either. I would expect a male character suddenly turned female to act differently in that situation then they would if they were male.

But then again, if I hate all the women in a series or even the majority of them, I would drop the show, and I completely admit that I don't really watch Western TV at all as most of the shows on air have little to catch my interest.

But then again, I go from a position where I now actively seek out media with strong and dimensional and textually important female characters who are varied and aren't just nifty little boxed tropes prancing around. But then again I also tend to be much harder on male characters then I am female characters, and having a good solid female cast is something that is very important to me when I choose my fandoms.

My problem is not that men and women bring different things to the role, but that so often the ONLY thing a woman brings is her gender.

And maybe part of my problem is I do like shows/movies aimed at a male audience. But I can list female characters who could be played as a man without changing character type. Like NCIS, Abby is a Lab Rat, her CSI counterpart would have been Greg. Her character revolves around being a perky goth in a military setting, the fact she's the lab rat, and her love of caffeine. All things that aren't gender specific.

Now take Sara from CSI, her character revolves around the fact she's a Woman In A Man's World, almost every interaction is "As a woman, I find that offensive" "As a woman, I can relate to the victim" "As a woman, I think you're being disrespectful" Her entire character was based around her vagina.

I tend to be just as annoyed at The Guy, when a show has mainly females and a guy only shows up to be a love interest with no actual personality of his own, but The Guy is a LOT rarer than The Chick.

It's like the test someone talked about in a secret "A movie needs to have two women talking together, for more than 30 seconds, about something other than a guy" If I can't name something about a character other than their gender or love interest... not interested.

I think there ARE slash fans who are just prejudiced against female characters, but there are plenty of us who just happen to like genres that have a lack of good female characters.

Recently I discussed with someone that the House writers had to have Mommy Issues, because almost every mother on the show was either a bitch (screaming at her son as he lies dying that he needs to stop being a lazy lump and since he's in bed anyway he can work on his college admissions essays) or ends up dying. And I am ok with accepting that the shows I like have flaws, and I can still enjoy them while rolling my eyes at the writer's idea of a 'mother character'. I can enjoy a show and still dislike the way The Chick is written.

With all due respect, I think your examples show your own prejudices more than any flaw on the characters' part. If that's really all you can think of when you talk about the CSI women, I have to ask, are you even trying?

How about you look at Catherine as a single PARENT? As in, her genitals have nothing to do with it, only the fact that her partner was bad news so she made sure to get custody of their kid despite her demanding job. Plus, she's the child of a mob boss-esque casino owner who has to deal with his influence continuously popping up in her work. Nothing gender-related about it.

And the first thing that comes to my mind when I think about Sara is not "a woman in a man's job" (if that's all you got out of it, you missed something BIG) but that she's a foster child dealing with anger issues and struggling to cope with the horrors of her job after a violent childhood. She'd have had the same sensitivities if she happened to have a penis instead of a vagina, because those issues? They're not caused by her vagina, but by her childhood.

Exactly. Thank you. This. CSI may have its gender issues, but the OP's description of Cath and Sara made me wonder if s/he was watching a different show.

Personally, I think part of that is your reading into those texts, and not necessarily an objective truth about the show. And women in jobs that have traditionally been held by men are going face issues in those jobs that men don't, so it HAS to work differently, because I don't believe any of these shows are meant to be portraying a setting of perfect gender equality.

I have seen a few episodes of CSI and my impression was never that the only thing they brought to their roles was the fact that they are women.

My problem with how people talk about The Chick trope, is that most often criticism of it seems to devalue what has traditionally been female roles and activities, and still upholds the male roles as something more important and better.

But then again, I am more likely to relate and like The Chick then any of the other characters in the show and it usually ticks me off when show demeans her for being that way.

[ SECRET POST #782 ]

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