fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5396 ]

[ SECRET POST #5396 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5396 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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In other words I feel this is a disingenuous argument and "that's racist" in fandom almost always has some underlying concern-trollish agenda that's not really concern for racism at all. Like the "racebending Asian characters as black is racist because you think Asians aren't POC enough" is usually just a cover for "I don't want to see this beautiful character I love reimagined as *shudder* black"

And then there are some of us who think that it DOES feel like people are saying Chinese people aren't POC enough. Because that... is kind of what people are doing.

it literally is racist though. an asian character is a poc, full stop. you don't need to "racebend" them to make them a poc because they already are.

the only thing racist about it is when people assume that just because the character is Black that they're not also Chinese.

This is such a stupid argument. That's like saying "lol just because the character is African doesn't mean they can't be white" as an excuse to racebend African characters into being white just because South Africa has a certain number of white people as well.

No? It's not? Mixed race people exist you weirdo

That's never something that gets included in those headcanons though. And even if it were- still doesn't make things less racist.

It get included all the time, what are you talking about? Can you explain why you think it’s racist, since you just keep saying it’s racist without giving a reason?

I agree with you. Obviously people are going to deny this, but they often hide prejudice under pseudo-social justice arguments, when what they're actually arguing for is keeping up the status quo, where there's no characters with "undesirable" social status in the media. And no, a Japanese character in Japanese media isn't a minority, no matter how you try to spin it. It may be incorrect to use the term "POC" when you mean "disenfranchised minority", but people who pretend to not understand that this is what you mean when you complain about the lack of diversity in anime are being wilfully obtuse.

Black characters in a nlack franchise are also not a minority and yet it would be racist to racebend them, even into a different type of POC. And you'd be the first to call it out. Dont be obtuse, your double standards are showing.
And don't say POC when you mean "exclusively black".

double standards AND western ignorance. japan has its own disenfranchised minorities, they just aren't black. if this was really about wanting representation for "disenfranchised minorities," then why not make the characters ainu or zainichi korean?

Or hell, even white. Because I know a whole lot of white people who face actual institutionalised racism in Japan by being ignored when searching for apartments etc.

Ah yes, the infamous "there are no black people in Poland so there shouldn't be any in The Witcher" argument, Japan Edition. If you think there are no dark-skinned POC immigrants in Japan or that white immigrants are treated in the exact same way as dark-skinned immigrants, you are the one who is ignorant.

There are dark skinned POC immigrants in Japan but you are apparently unable to understand that dark-skinned does not automatically mean black.

Speaking as a person from a country where over 99% of people are white, I'm fully aware that not all POCs are black, but I'm also fully aware that any visibly dark-skinned person here will be treated very very, very much worse than any white person, even one of those white ethnicities, which are often discriminated against here. Anyone claiming otherwise is a liar.

i've lived in japan. the overall number of immigrants there is tiny and the majority of them are either korean or chinese.

I'm aware of this. Yet, even despite the tiny number of white immigrants, no one argues that Japan shouldn't create white characters. And before you start arguing that all anime characters are supposed to be Japanese, let me remind you that they had to replace the character of Levi in the live-action Attack on Titan, because his name was too foreign. I doubt that Edward Elric was intended to be Japanese either. L from Death Note was explicitly stated by the author to be of mixed ethnicity, near and Mello are white. Even Masashi Kishimoto said in an interview once that if characters in Naruto were any real-life ethnicities, Sasuke would be Japanese, Sakura would be European, and Naruto would be an American. So clearly, the low number of white immigrants in Japan doesn't stop Japanese artists from creating white character in their franchise.

you're moving the goalposts. yes, japan creates white characters, but it's uncommon to have white characters in anime that are set in japan, and when you do see them they're usually treated as a novelty/something strange and foreign.

if the argument behind the racebending is "i want to racebend this character from an ethnic majority into a disenfranchised minority," then in japan that would be ainu, zainichi korean or anyone half-japanese because japan is not the us and does not have the same racial politics as the us. anyone foreign in japan faces a certain amount of discrimination regardless of their ethnicity simply because they aren't japanese. the actual systemic discrimination with a history is against people like the ainu and the zainichi koreans, not black people (or white people) because they're effectively a non-entity in japan.

You're the one moving the goalposts. How else to call it when you're suddenly moving the topic from black characters in anime, to black characters in anime specifically set in Japan. I'm simply pointing out that it's worth to examine why do so many creatives around the world feel inspired to design, create and develop white characters, but never black characters, or other dark-skinned POCs.

I have no doubt that Japanese discriminate against anyone who isn't a full-blooded Japanese and I'm all for creating more Ainu characters, and Korean characters in Japanese media. But it's not an either-or. Creating or "race-bending" a character to be black doesn't take away all available slots for the permitted number of minority characters in the media, and demanding that black anime fans must first accommodate all oppressed people in Japan before they're allowed to accommodate themselves has the same energy as people, who insist that feminists need to first solve the problems of all oppressed groups in the world before they're allowed to focus on women's rights. Black anime fans are going to want to see themselves represented in their favourite media, which already has plenty of representation of white people, there's absolutely nothing morally wrong about that so stop treating it as if it was.

Fucking this!!

they're not moving the goalposts at all, they're responding to what the other anon said.

anon: they're just arguing because they want to keep the status quo and not have characters with "undesirable" social status in their media
other anon: okay, so then why does no one ever racebend characters to [groups with undesirable social status in japan]?

it's a legit question if that is what racebending is supposed to be about. i have a hard time with believing it's really about wanting representation when there are in fact a decent number of non-white/non-japanese characters in japanese media these days and ime they tend to get passed over in terms of fandom attention regardless of how major a character they are. in fact the only ones i see who genuinely do get a lot of fanart are mirko from my hero academia and raihan and nessa from pokemon.

Firstly the goalpost shifting, and now whataboutism, nice. Bringing up "legit questions" that have already been addressed in the same comment you're replying to, real nice. I'm sorry, was any part of my comment not clear? Do tell me what part of "It's not the job of black anime fans to put the needs of other minorities before their own, just like it's not the job of feminists to solve world hunger before they're allowed to fight for reproductive rights" don't you understand? And what part of "creating black characters doesn't use up the slots for other minority characters, so if any Ainu anime fan wants to racebend characters to be Ainu, they are more than welcomed to do so" is not clear to you?

As for why characters are passed over - gee, idk, maybe it's because they're in a work that simply doesn't have a wide appeal? No one should force themselves to watch something they don't enjoy, just because there's minorities in it. I'm a feminist, I care about female representation, but I'm not going to watch every single one of the godawful all-female remakes of 90s films that Hollywood has churned out. I want to see representation in films I can actually enjoy watching. And there's absolutely nothing wrong and immoral about it.

And you know what? I'm pretty sure you don't need me to explain this all to you. It's really not that hard to come up with an answer to the burning question of "why do black people enjoy seeing characters that look like them in their favourite media" that isn't "because black people bad", without needing me to spell it out to you.

Re: SA

(Anonymous) - 2021-10-16 00:08 (UTC) - Expand

Masashi Kishimoto is a fucking idiot if that's really what he said; European and American aren't ethnicities. You can be European or American and also ethnically Japanese.

DA

That was a really dumb thing for him to say, for real.

"Black franchise" meaning what? Nigerian cinema? If so, then sure, I'd agree with you. American cinema? Don't make me laugh.

And don't say POC when you mean "exclusively black".

never have I said anything of the sort. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a single mainstream work of fiction where literally all characters would be black. Some niche fantasy works in a corner of the bookstore, or a webcomic with a cast of 3-5 characters maybe, but nothing that would compare to big budget Hollywood productions (even Black Panther had major white characters), or games (such as the Witcher, which has no POC characters at all, or World of Warcraft, which didn't even have a dark-skinned character texture up until last year, when they celebrated 25 years of being #1 most popular MMORPG), or top rated book translated to every language around the world such as Harry Potter, or animes or... anything else, really.

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