fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5398 ]

[ SECRET POST #5398 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5398 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 38 secrets from Secret Submission Post #773.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

05. https://i.imgur.com/asz5TYc.png

I don't think things need to be groundbreaking to be good social commentaries or interesting to watch.

Agreed. The concept of people having to fight to the death might not be groundbreaking on it’s own. But the fact that’s it’s familiar actually means that storytellers can use that audience familiarity as a springboard for new ideas and discussions.

Hook them in with a tried and true premise, but keep them there with what a deeper look into what the premise could actually look like in a more realistic setting, and what that could say about the human condition that might not have been said in the same way before.

Whether it succeeds in this is subjective, of course. But it’s undeniable that that’s what Squid Game is going for, instead of just relying on the violent spectacle of the game.

Its premise is not (I would also compare it to Kaiji), but it's different in its own ways enough to leave an impact. It also has what I would consider a larger, if not different, demographic, so not all folks watching it may be familiar with those other works.

The basic premise is similar (people compete in games to the death to survive) but I think all three are vastly different shows.

Squid Game: Players are incentivized with a huge cash prize to play, given opportunities to quit and to return at their own free will, and the world in which these games are going on it coexists with a functioning society in which is like our reality. The VIPs seem to watch these games solely as a means of fun/pleasure.

Hunger Games: In a not-too-distant future, oppressed districts are forced to volunteer their kids to play in a life or death arena for food, a punishment from the ruling state to the oppressed people who tried to rebel. The ruling state use the games and contestants as a means of entertainment, yes, but it stems from punishing the rebels.

Alice in Borderland: Arisu and his friends don't know what happened (did they get sent to an alternate reality? are they in purgatory? did everyone who disappeared die? etc) but all they know is that they are forced to play life or death games to continue living while trying to figure out what the hell is going on.

IMO all vastly different shows telling vastly different stories. Even the protagonists are nothing alike.

Also, I personally found the cop's story to be like an epic Greek tragedy and it coincides well with the idea of good people with good intentions not getting the happy ending fictional stories tell us they will get. Good intentions can only get you so far in a corrupt society. In the US we have an issue with corruption in our justice system on all levels, from local cops up to federal agents and politicians and judges. South Korea in recent years have received a lot of scandal due to corruptions in their justice system too.
And beyond that, I feel like there is subtext that alludes to how the US broke families up by forcing Korea to break up into North Korea and South Korea. The dynamic and mystery and reveal of the 2 brothers, to me, feel like there's something really deep there that hasn't been scratched at enough.
Squid Game's approach to addressing the North Korea/South Korea divide was done with a soft hand (IMO but I'm seeing this with a 1st Gen Asian American lense so please don't quote me), so I DON'T KNOW, maybe my dumb ass is reading too much into it.
All I can say is, I'm a fierce defender of Junho's story, especially because I went into the show ready to hate his story. Sick and tired of "cops are inherently good and they will save the day, that's how you know it's a happy ending!" narrative and the show didn't go in that direction.

Well, one interpretation of the Hunger Games is that it really is about the entertainment and the punishment is just the flimsy excuse the government is telling people. But that aside yes, they are still very different.

Another difference is that in Hunger Games and Battle Royale it's young people who are made to fight to the death, in Squid Game the contestants are adults of all ages, including an old man who ends up pretty important to the plot. That alone makes it pretty original.

> Players are incentivized with a huge cash prize to play, given opportunities
> to quit and to return at their own free will

Exactly, they aren't forced, except by their own desperation for money, which is essentially how coercion works in "free" capitalist societies (in contrast to the direct coercion in places like North Korea - interestingly enough, one of the characters is an escaped North Korean). You aren't forced to do anything, it's just that if you don't comply and don't work at that exploitative job, you won't have money to live.

Squid Game, Hunger Games, Battle Royale, Alice in Borderland, Danganronpa, Zero Escape*, The Running Man, etc, etc, etc...

The 'death games' genre is really big, and not exactly new. They can be grouped into subgenres (Financial Desperation, Totalitarian Government Fuckery, In-universe Entertainment, etc), but generally each media brings its own take to the genre, including usually involving multiple of these subgenres.

I have mixed feelings on the sentiment expressed in the OP...as a fan of the genre, I'm glad I heard of Squid Game because of it (haven't watched it, yet, since I've currently got the attention span of a gnat for anything that's not interactive), but, it's also fucking maddening to have people treating it like it's some utterly flat plane where any two examples are basically the same thing.

* At least the first two games...I've not played Zero Time Dilemma, but I understand it changed up the formula, and doesn't use a Nonary Game.

^this

At this point, the genre is so big and diverse that you can't rightfully call it a rip-off. For me, the set up of Squid Game is closest to the magna/anime Kaij. Hunger Games isn't even kind of similar to Squid Game.

It is really fascinating to see how a genre grows, and I feel like the 'death games' genre is pretty recent. Battle Royale, which coined the term 'battle royale', didn't come around until 2000, and even that was pre-dated by Kaiji (1996).

I'm trying to think of what the oldest example is for death games. The Long Walk, 1979?

(no subject)

kamino_neko - 2021-10-17 02:36 (UTC) - Expand

i say a director's commentary video where he said that he wrote jun-ho's plot in when he adapted the script from movie to tv because tv afforded him more time and yeah, it shows.

I can't believe you're using Alice in Borderland as an example of what it's "ripping off"

Alice in Borderland isn't even the first "Wonderland"-named death game, Deadman Wonderland came first.

Everybody: *All the shows mentioned*

Me: Takeshi's castle.

your mind, anon

I have constantly been referring to it as a cross between Battle Royale and Takeshi's Castle! So not just you ;)

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2021-10-17 22:43 (UTC) - Expand

I had no idea what Alice in Borderland was until everyone started bitching about how Squid Game ripped it off and "where were all the Squid Game fans when Alice in Borderland was new." Maybe I would've been there if any of you whiners had told me it EXISTED.

Hah, same...I only learned of Alice in Borderland due to the Squid Game hype, too. (Saw AiB mentioned while looking up Squid Game to see if it was really particularly like Danganronpa (the particular fandom I saw most of the 'ripoff!' complaining in)...it...really isn't.) I'd have probably checked it out, or at least put it on my 'to watch' list back when it was new if I'd...you know...heard anything about it.

I really enjoyed Squid Game, but I agree that Jun-Ho's plot didn't do as much as I thought it would. I suppose we could say that it helped with revealing that the guy in grey was a former winner, which might be explored more in a later season, and exposed more of the organ farming - but honestly we could have followed the doctor guy for that. Maybe if they do another season we'll find out that some of his recirdings got through and there is some level of investigation happening. But as it stands, yeah, it seemed like a waste.

I actually feel media in this genre are very very different even if the premise is the same. this genre has a great capacity to be rooted in a specific culture and time.

Fics of the cop getting raped by the VIP or his brother are extremely hot though.

I'm just annoyed by so fucking many people acting like the premise is So New and Groundbreaking. Sorry you've lived in a bubble I guess?

That is rather annoying, honestly. I wish people would stop assuming everything they see is a completely original concept just because they haven’t personally seen anything like it before. It gives away how shallow their reference pool is.

It’s also annoying when people call it a wholesale ripoff of other death game fiction, with no individual merit of it’s own. Especially when they compare it to the wrong death game fiction that it clearly took 0 influence from. Like OP saying it’s “literally Hunger Games and Alice in Borderland”, which are ridiculous comparisons with no basis other than they all belong to the same sub genre. This kind is attitude is just as revealingly shallow as the people who think everything new to them is original.

Like many others with more knowledge and experience with the sub genre have said, the influences for Squid Game are Kaiji and Battle Royale. But other people will instead call it a copy of whatever death game fiction they’re familiar with. Even Honest Trailers called this out:

“But now, catch the intense global sensation that’s making Americans who’s only exposure to Battle Royale concepts is Fortnite, and who’s only exposure to Korean film is Parasite say: “I’m getting serious Parasite meets Fortnite vibes from this””

Both this attitude and the blase Seen It All Before one are extremely annoying.

I felt like the Jun-ho's plot existed primarily to flesh out the character and backstory of the Front Man (used to be a loving brother and an upstanding citizen, until financial problems forced him to take part in the game and the horrors of it corrupted him and brainwashed him into believing that he needs to participate in the system to ensure that it's "just"), and to learn more about how it all works behind the scenes. I liked knowing these details, though it's sad that it didn't lead up to anything in the end.

I disagree with the criticism that seem to just not understand the genre. That's like saying there's nothing interesting or innovative in any fantasy work, because everything is a rip-off of Tolkien.

This. OP’s criticism is just a baseless comparison to other examples of the sub genre. And claims like theirs are so common at this point, that they’re just as unoriginal and ubiquitous as they all think Squid Game’s concept is.

more like kaiji! it's an idea that's been done before and it will be done again. I think it's really cool to see an asian series get so much traction

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only