[ SECRET POST #5409 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5409 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 18 secrets from Secret Submission Post #774.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

06. https://i.imgur.com/wMLyfRE.png

[(Anonymous)]

OP, are you talking about what is known as the Clever Hans Effect?

[(Anonymous)]

people who use their pets and kids to get likes and views are generally skeevy to me tbh

[(Anonymous)]

I'm going to go with manipulative because there is no way these people don't notice all those times their pets "say" nonsense.

[(Anonymous)]

That's not manipulative, that's just garden or common motivated reasoning

[(Anonymous)]

Not necessarily.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

[(Anonymous)]

wow what an obscure concept thank you for introducing me

[(Anonymous)]

There’s no need for your attitude. And it’s not like AYRT specifically said you had never heard of confirmation bias, they just provided it as something to consider about these people. And provided a link for anyone who genuinely didn’t understand the concept.

But you clearly had not considered the rather obvious possibility of confirmation bias, so you acting snarky about someone bringing it up makes you look especially foolish. You can’t not look defensive and silly when you act like a smartass to someone who brings up something valid that you clearly hadn’t considered.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, you're rude.

[(Anonymous)]

If you knew of it, why did you have such a bone headed "duhhhh it'd obviously manipulation bc blah blah blah" response?

[philstar22]

Literally speak, of course not. But animals and humans can communicate. If you learn cat or dog body language and also the specific body language of your pet, you can understand them to a certain extent. And they learn you and while they don't understand your words, they can understand tone and body language.

[(Anonymous)]

Not to mention, any long-term dog or cat owner will be able to tell you that a dog or cat can easily learn that certain sound/action = certain outcome, sometimes even when you don't want them to. Ever see a dog decide to perform every trick it's ever learned because someone in the room has something he likes to eat and he wants it? Because yes, that's a thing that happens.

It's not exactly a stretch that a dog could figure out that "press red button" = treat, "press blue button" = walks, etc. And sure, that's not the same as the dog figuring out that the blue button sound could be made by something that is not the blue button and still mean walks. But the dog is still using the buttons to communicate specific concepts to the human.

[akacat]

Yeah. I’m sure than when the animal adds “want” “to” etc it’s nonsense. But “treat”, “walk” and “fetch” are probably legitimate, if extremely basic, communication for most pets. As long as the buttons are easy for the animal to identify.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think the buttons thing qualify as people thinking their dogs are talking to them the way you seem to infer. If a dog (or another animal) sees that each time they press a particular button, that always made the same series of sounds, the same thing always happens just after (food button = they get food, bath button = they have to take a bath, and so on), many intelligent enough animals are going to make the simple connection. And when their owners see their pets using it/reacting to it in a consistant manner, I don't believe they're crazy to think their pets know what they're doing. It IS a form of communication. Maybe we need more proof yet, but as someone who's not a pet owner (not anymore), has watch one video with a cat using the buttons, doesn't underestimate animals intelligence, but understand that they're still so much we don't know about it and that we still have a tendency to anthropomorphize, saying those people are delusional sounds more delusional to me.

[(Anonymous)]

* qualifies

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe we haven’t seen the same videos. I can definitely believe that animals like dogs and cats could learn to associate pressing a given button with an outcome. And obviously they’re able to be trained with simple verbal commands.

But lots of these people include buttons for more complex linguistic concepts, including prepositions and questions. And they seem to be trying to get their dogs to create sentences. Even the best trained primates and parrots struggle with language of that complexity.

The YouTube channel What About Bunny is a particularly ridiculous example.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT The one I've seen was, like I've said, about simple command like : eat, bath, walk... Nothing abstract.

[feotakahari]

I’m not sure how a dog would learn the point of the “dream” button, though. That’s one I’ve seen.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, that's a very reasonable interpretation of the phenomenon. Unfortunately, the people making these videos don't stop there, but imagine their pets making complex sentences and telling them about abstract concepts etc.

[(Anonymous)]

You don't have animals, I bet?

[(Anonymous)]

Not OP, but I've had a few dogs over the years and I agree that the idea that they could think or communicate in complex sentences is ridiculous (although I try to steer away from words like "delusional" or "pathological").

Your dog is not pushing buttons to tell you that it's mad about the cat or to tell you what it dreamt about. It is pushing buttons because you pay attention and praise it when it pushes them. It might, after a while, learn to press buttons to get certain things like "food" or "outside".

Animals can be highly intelligent in their own ways and it is hard to measure exactly how much they understand, but no research suggests that dogs or cats can use human language in the way seemingly believed by these YouTube channels.

[(Anonymous)]

I believe in the dogs expressing simple wishes via the buttons, but as others say, not the more complex human speech the videos seem to want to prove. That's not to say dogs and other animals don't have sophisticated communication skills but they communicate *as animals.* I find it a little cringey when people need to believe animals communicate like humans. Tat includes apes-- the more I read about Koko the gorilla, the less I believe she was really signing everything her human interpreter said she was. It would be way more useful for us humans to try to understand animals rather than hope they can learn human language

I can't believe you're making me defend dogs.

[(Anonymous)]

I am not the biggest fan of dogs. I like some of them (well, I like all of the puppies), but generally just tolerate (or avoid) the rest. But, of course there are some dogs smart enough to actually process language enough to communicate by button press - not all dogs by a long shot, but some, yeah. The American Kennel Club says that, according to studies, many dogs may process language like babies, but some are linguistically gifted.

https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/news/how-much-language-do-dogs-really-understand/

Re: I can't believe you're making me defend dogs.

[(Anonymous)]

So, you say you like some dogs, and puppies as a whole. But you open your comment with “I can’t believe you’re making me defend dogs”, which sounds a whole lot more dog-hating than you might intend to come off as. That opener has the same energy as someone responding “I can’t believe you’re making me defend Chris Pratt” to someone who says he robs banks or something.

Re: I can't believe you're making me defend dogs.

[(Anonymous)]

They are better than cats, which suck.