[ SECRET POST #5429 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5429 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 221 secrets from Secret Submission Post #777.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I basically agree with you, there's so often a huge lack of nuance when discussing characters and morality and it's both baffling and annoying.

But separately, I'm just so annoyed with this "antis" stuff now. People keep insisting that it's only used specifically and exclusively to refer to people who engage in death threats, doxxing, or mass organized harassment. Then you see it in actual use like here, where it's just used to mean, essentially, people in the discourse who have vocal negative opinions about specific ships for moral reasons in general. Nothing in the way this secret mentions antis has anything to do with death threats, doxxing, or harassment. It's purely about about general discourse within fandom. And we just had another secret the other day where it was used the exact same way. To be clear, I don't think OP is wrong here, I think they're using the word the way that it gets used. What annoys me is this insistence that this isn't actually how the word is used. OK that's my rant done with.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm the OP of the Dune secret the other day.

When I used the word antis and discourse, I was referring more to the discourse around liking gray-area characters - "antis" was interpreted as people objecting to problematic aspects of the material. For what it's worth, I don't consider that kind of criticism "anti" unless it involves actively harassing fans or telling them not to like it/that they're bad people for liking it.

(I saw a post on twitter along the lines of "don't compare Paul to Kylo Ren" and my reaction was roughly "you're new here, aren't you?")

So I think I should have used a different word to mean "people who are hostile towards folks who like morally questionable characters", but "anti" is so broad it's come to mean many things. You have a god point.

[(Anonymous)]

Nayrt

"Don't compare Paul to Kylo Ren"

LMAO!!!!!

Twitter OP is in for a rough time if the rest of the series makes it to screen.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the reason why is because there is a lot of overlap in terms of opinions and social networks between people who do the first thing (death threats and doxxing) and people who do the second thing (have moralized negative opinions about ships). For example, I recently ran into someone who unironically believed that writing aged-up teenagers having sex was a strong indication that you are sexually attracted to the teenage characters and that aging them up was just a fig leaf to make that attraction seem more "legitimate." As far as I know, this person has never sent a death threat or harassed anyone. But I feel safe calling them an anti anyway because if you truly believe that writing fic of aged up teenagers having sex is an informative signal of being a real! life! pedophile!, and most people view pedophilia as one of the worst and most severe sexual transgressions, I get the feeling that person would feel death threats and doxxing are completely justified, because that is far less severe than letting pedophiles walk around fandom unharassed. There's a whole continuum of behavior that starts off by warning people about pedophiles and collecting lists of fans that post pedophilic content and ends with doxxing and death threats. This isn't a slippery slope argument -- it's an argument about what people view as morally justifiable given the stakes that they believe are at play (which is "real life pedophiles regularly posting and interacting with people in fannish spaces").