[ SECRET POST #5431 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5431 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 07 secrets from Secret Submission Post #777.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Article about sex workers losing custody of their children: https://inthesetimes.com/article/presumed-guilty-of-bad-mothering

Another example of a teacher losing their job over sex work, and a really good article about the effect writing can have on your real life if people who have power over you disapprove of it: https://www.writermag.com/writing-inspiration/the-writing-life/writing-hard-truths/

Article about child custody loss because of (adults-only, consensual) BDSM: https://www.thedailybeast.com/parents-can-lose-custody-of-children-just-for-being-kinky

[(Anonymous)]

School volunteer fired for having a (consenting adult only) erotica blog: https://www.dailydot.com/irl/bawdy-bloke-erotica/

Yet ANOTHER teacher fired for writing adult erotic romance: https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2011/04/28/going-after-teachers-who-have-side-jobs/

Really good article about how erotica writers navigate these issues, if you're actually interested in learning about it: https://emmanuelledemaupassant.com/2016/06/30/secret-identities/

[(Anonymous)]

What does sex-work have to do with writing kinky fiction for personal enjoyment? I'm pretty sure that most people making call-out posts for fandom writers are pro-sex work. I don't deny that sex workers are treated like crap, but these are completely uncomparable situations.

And from the article on people losing children because of BDSM practices, there's a lot of interesting details: "A social worker backed up the ex-husband’s proofless allegations, even outlandish ones where he claimed their eldest son had been hung from the ceiling by his wrist, and removed the children."

So the issue wasn't that they were kinky, the issue was that multiple people claimed the children were physically abused. It may be that all those people were lying because they were prejudiced towards the couple for being in a BDSM relationship, but no one's argument was that they should lose their children because of the nature of their relationship.

[(Anonymous)]

What does sex-work have to do with writing kinky fiction for personal enjoyment? I'm pretty sure that most people making call-out posts for fandom writers are pro-sex work.

In theory. Unless the sex work involves kinks and roleplay scenarios they don't like.

Personally, I think most fandom callout people are doing it for clout and to get rid of competition. They know they can probably whip up a mob into a frenzy pretty quickly because people are conditioned to believe that callouts are always important and should never be questioned.

For every callout that does have some actual merit, there are hundreds that are complete hot garbage juice.

People know this, which is why it's even more difficult than it used to be, because we don't know if "pedophile" means someone who's really a danger to kids, or someone who drew some anime teens making out.

And you're cherrypicking what you respond to. What about the teachers fired for being in anyway involved in consenting-adult erotica "for personal enjoyment." Yes. That is, in fact, what sex is for.

[(Anonymous)]

> In theory. Unless the sex work involves kinks and roleplay scenarios they don't like.

That would be very difficult to accuse an actress of, and very easy to defend, given how little choice porn actresses have of choosing what they want to perform.

> because we don't know if "pedophile" means someone who's really a danger to kids, or someone who drew some anime teens making out.

I do agree with that, that annoys me as well, though usually just drawing anime teens making out isn't enough to get someone cancelled. Most YA contains scenes of that. And while I personally don't necessarily mind seeing anime teens doing more than making out, I can see why so many teens in fandom feel uncomfortable interacting with adults who make those kind of fanworks.

> And you're cherrypicking what you respond to. What about the teachers fired for being in anyway involved in consenting-adult erotica "for personal enjoyment."

You mean this one? "So how did Eastman/Bright get busted? The details are unclear, but Gather reports that she wrote the novel on a school computer, which violates school policy of using resources for "social networking of a personal nature."

[(Anonymous)]

You do realize that independent-agent sex workers, like on OnlyFans, actually do have a lot of agency when it comes to what they will and won't do, right? And that pro dommes also do? And that there are indie women-run porn houses? There are a lot of women in porn and sex work who absolutely do have their own firmly set boundaries. If a pro Domme is asked to RP a Mommy/little scene, she absolutely can refuse it if it's not her thing, or she can do it and make it great.

Yes, there's a lot of abuse and exploitation. But the argument that women in porn (all of them) can't help it, they don't have agency - that's another version of "well, I guess this icky thing is okay as long as they aren't doing it for pleasure."

Writing smut on a school computer is super stupid, I'll grant you that. Immoral, no. But stupid!

[(Anonymous)]

+1000 "Icky stuff is only okay if you don't WANT to" is just another step of puritan

[(Anonymous)]

I'd still argue that pro Domme is a consenting adult roleplaying a scenario with another consenting adult. And I don't see a lot of the "fandom puritans" which are overwhelmingly teenage girls - watching a lot of pro Dommes on Onlyfans to check the content of their work. hence why generally most sex workers getting cancelled are those who repeatedly break twitch rules.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes but in a Mommy/little scene they might well be roleplaying adult/child sex. (Or not - not all scenes have genital sex) You find that objectionable in fiction, so I'd assumed roleplay would be similar, since roleplay is also a form of fiction.

I think the problem you're having is that you spend so much time around teenagers that you're hypervigilant and obssessive about it, and forget that fandom as a whole does not revolve around teenagers, and that the kind of creepiness you talk about seeing is actually not all that common outside of teen zones. Because why would someone who wants to creep on teens hang out in a fandom that's mostly adults (which is most fandoms that aren't based on faddish teen media)? They won't find what they're looking for there.

So you're taking something that's a problem in one specific area of fandom, and projecting it all over people who make adult stuff for an adult audience. And yes, adult erotica creators are often very much at risk for negative consequences based on puritanism.

[(Anonymous)]

Ding ding ding

[(Anonymous)]

I would've agree with your comment if it weren't for the fact that this is a secret about someone intending to be a YA author, and therefore yes, aiming for a teenage audience. So my experiences with teen-centric fandoms are not irrelevant in this topic. If this were the secret about Hannibal, I wouldn't have responded with anything but sympathy.

[(Anonymous)]

But people can write more than one kind of work! It's perfectly possible to write YA and also write erotica, as long as it's made very clear which is which. I do understand that under the current climate it's unfortunately smart to hide "shameful" work, but I think that's a bad thing and ought to change.

Using different pseudonyms is good marketing. Having to hide or disavow "edgier" work altogether, well, I understand why people do it but I wish they didn't feel like they had to.

[(Anonymous)]

I fail to understand what does anything in these articles you linked have to do with people posting controversial fanworks for personal enjoyment on the same account they use for their YA works. People can't change their face. They can change their pen-name. And even in the BDSM story you've linked, no one lost children specifically because of the argument that what happens in their bedroom affects the children. There are mentions of physical abuse against the kids that has been backed by social workers, or “an extensive collection of firearms.”

[(Anonymous)]

You're moving the goal posts. You said no one ever gets cancelled for writing or performing in consenting adult erotica, that it ONLY happens when it's incest or noncon or underage. I posted several examples where exactly that happened (cancelled = fired in this case).

[(Anonymous)]

Next time someone complains about lack of queer representation in media, I'm going to point to all the lesbian and gay porn to prove them wrong then. Since you apparently think that porn and mainstream fandom are not two completely different and unrelated spaces with their own separate issues.

[(Anonymous)]

That doesn't even make sense.

But yes, mainstream fandom does include X-rated fanworks. Always has, always will. This is only a problem if you think erotica is inherently bad and something that needs to be hidden out of sight. I do not think that. There are works of all ratings and all sexual content levels, and they coexist side by side. As long as there are tags and warnings, this is fine.

I really don't see what this has to do with queer representation or lack thereof though. That feels like a huge reach.