[ SECRET POST #5484 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5484 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 28 secrets from Secret Submission Post #785.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Young fans on social media are dumb and often shitty. That's true regardless of which "type" of fan you're talking about. Talking about a conflict between "'traditional' fandom demographics" and "bullies who are hiding behind SWJ buzzwords" is an overly simplistic way to describe anything that's going on in fandom broadly defined.

I do agree that there's a generation gap in fandom and I do agree that there's such a thing as gentrification of fandom. But I don't think they really line up cleanly with anything that you're saying. I think most of the same pathologies have always been evident in fandom, they just take on different structural forms in a new environment (IE, Web 2.0 social media). And I think those pathologies of behavior don't necessarily fall along any particular lines - for instance, there are plenty of older fans who are perfectly happy to form attack mobs on social media under the right circumstances, including people who are absolutely part of "traditional" fandom demographics. By the same token, I think it's incorrect to tar every young fan with the same brush.

And I don't think the gentrification of social media really has anything to do with this. Frankly, there's always been tons of disagreement over the norms of fanfic, fandom, and social media. There was a relatively brief period where it seemed like there was general consensus within a specific and relatively delimited fanfiction community about those norms, but even within that circle, I think there was a lot more argument about this stuff than people like to remember. I think it's really easy to just blame every problem you ever see in fandom on new fans. But I don't think that's accurate in this case.

[philstar22]

This. And even now, it depends on what fandom you are in. Some of the biggest fandoms are as full of fans angry at "SJW" stuff (meaning often the mere existence of female characters being awesome or being big characters in big fandoms) as they are of what this person is talking about. Large chunks of the Doctor Who, Star Wars, Star Trek, and probably other fandoms are genuinely toxic because of this.

[(Anonymous)]

This exactly! I’ve seen people saying this is all the fault, and will continue to be in the future, of the “Woke/SJW” crowd. Without giving any thought to how the toxicity is just as bad with the anti-SJW crowd, who freak out at anything they don’t like and that they don’t feel catered to with, using buzzwords liked “forced diversity” at absolutely everything new. Or that a large amount of antis aren’t really operating with real “woke” beliefs, but are similarly just using buzzwords to attempt to give an excuse for their bullying and harassment of people, which was always their aim from the start. It’s completely an oversimplification to blame all the problems with fandom on the “SJWs/Wokes”, just as it is to blame younger fans for all the problems. It speaks to a lack of perspective to think this way.

[tree_and_leaf]

I'm not saying liberals/ progressives never do problematic shit, because they absolutely do, but 99% of the time anyone banging on about SJW/ Wokes should be ignored because they're talking knee-jerk nonsense.

[(Anonymous)]

Right, because the woker-than-thou crowd so seldom are the ones telling people to kill themselves, doxxing others over petty shit, or forming attack mobs because some other fan dares to ship the wrong pairing or doesn't love their fave enough/in the right way. And of course they never team up with the dudebros to attack people if their interests align.

Star Wars fandom has a bridge to sell you.

[(Anonymous)]

Right, because the woker-than-thou crowd so seldom are the ones telling people to kill themselves, doxxing others over petty shit, or forming attack mobs because some other fan dares to ship the wrong pairing or doesn't love their fave enough/in the right way. And of course they never team up with the dudebros to attack people if their interests align.

Ridiculous strawman. Who in this thread is saying anything close to that?

[(Anonymous)]

It's not a strawman. All of these things have happened in my fandoms. The woker-thqan-thou crowd are not better than the dudebros; they're just as awful in different ways.

[(Anonymous)]

Nobody has said that they don't happen. That's why it's a strawman.

[(Anonymous)]

You are doing your level best to minimize them when your side does them, though.

[(Anonymous)]

No.

[tree_and_leaf]

Admittedly Doctor Who fandom has been terrible for years. The specific ways in which it's terrible change, but it's always had a large toxic element.

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly!

[chamonix]

there are plenty of older fans who are perfectly happy to form attack mobs on social media under the right circumstances, including people who are absolutely part of "traditional" fandom demographics.

You don't have to look further than the MsScribe story for a prime example. That shit was happening 20 years ago, and her in-crowd's crusade against certain areas of fandom was almost exactly comparable to the twitter witch hunts we're used to now. The only change is that 20 years ago, the more conservative areas of fandom were under fire. Now, it's the more liberal ones. Funny how some thing change, but people stay the same.

[(Anonymous)]

True, but the witch hunts were not considered a good thing back then, unlike now.