[ SECRET POST #5519 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5519 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 34 secrets from Secret Submission Post #790.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I think OP is referring to people who accuse people who focus on M/M for shipping purposes or the male characters in general as "misogynists" because they don't emphasize any female characters. It's a repackaging of an old argument to seem less obviously homophobic ("well, you shouldn't imagine the boys kissing because, uh, YOU'RE IGNORING THE GIRLS!")

It's a very old argument but I think people have also added on the additional layer in recent times of "well, you shouldn't imagine the boys kissing because, uh, YOU'RE FETISHIZING GAY MEN!" They just never stop coming up with new reasons for why you shouldn't be so into it.

It's honestly kind of weird because you'll even hear these arguments for relatively progressive people who really have no reason to be this way.

[(Anonymous)]

That "fetishizing gay men" stance has been around for a while, but...so? Erotic fic is about what gets people off, and some of it is centered around certain acts/people. Sorry, not sorry.

Writing slash and turning male characters into really fey and stereotypical gay tropes (when it's out of character and the canon character is very masc) is annoying to me, though. It's like making, say, Jess in New Girl super butch.

[(Anonymous)]

Fetishizing real gay men to their face is in bad taste, but like, that almost never actually happens. I’ve heard some stories of it happening, and I can believe that some slash fans can have no sense of personal boundaries and a tenuous grip on reality vs. fiction, especially younger people. But they’re absolutely the minority of slash fans, and most of the time that’s not the case. I’ve never seen any examples of the “fetishizing” personally either, unless someone counts saying “Aww! What a cute couple!” as fetishizing. Which I definitely don’t, considering straight couples get that compliment all the time. It’s a pretty benign and tame compliment.

So the people who treat slash fans like the act of them liking or writing/drawing it is fetishizing real gay men in an of itself are acting in bad faith. Because unless it’s RPF, the characters are fictional, so nobody is getting fetishized IRL. And RPF is another issue that can be thorny to talk about, but at least it doesn’t qualify as fetishizing someone to their face(I assume that doesn’t happen at least, unless some people are giving their RPF to the celebrities themselves).

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Look, I've read a lot, in a whole bunch of flavours.

And there's a difference between... 'this fic doesn't happen to have my favourite characters, who are girls' (which can be frustrating, sure, but whatever)

And... 'all canon female characters are erased, or turned into screaming harpies, and Dude makes a speech about how he never really loved his canonical love interest and she was so bad for him emotionally, but now he has found Other Dude and Can Finally Be Happy.'

There's just an edge of mean sometimes.


And also. I've seen plenty of people being extremely aggressive about anyone who doesn't like exactly the things that they like. Really happy to throw derogatory labels. Like the person up thread with their comment about kiddy-porn because.... that's the only other option somehow?

...

...

I guess what I mean is that a few people are souring me on the entire genre.

[(Anonymous)]

Nobody writes female characters like that in fic anymore. If a female character is prominent in an M/M fic, she's the flawless BFF who plays matchmaker for the couple and gives awesome, woke relationship advice. She's also probably in a side ship with one of the other female characters.

[(Anonymous)]

+1000

[(Anonymous)]

Mm, I actually rarely get the inspiration to write about my favorite characters, no matter what gender they are or what kind of fic I'm inspired to write. In fact, I think I'm more often inspired to write something about a character I don't like very much or don't care about either way. It's kind of frustrating really. So if that was a subtle dig implying it's a lie to say some female character you don't write about is your favorite, I'm sorry to tell you it's not.

[(Anonymous)]

I’m pretty sure that’s not a dig or implication saying that’s a lie, because your experience seems really different from others, as well as pretty specific. So why do you think that’s what Ayrt was saying at all? Because it makes no sense for you to come to that conclusion.

“So if that was a subtle dig implying it's a lie to say some female character you don't write about is your favorite, I'm sorry to tell you it's not.”

Like seriously, this is the weirdest leap. How does this question make sense in this context? Or any context for that matter?

DA

[(Anonymous)]

Nothing is souring me on the genre, because I don’t think it’s possible for me to be soured on slash, I love it too much.

But I definitely agree with the rest of your comment. Women being bashed that way doesn’t happen very often anymore, than god. But people either forget how prevalent that was, or just assume anyone talking about those types of fics are actually just being woke and saying slashfics should focus more on women. Like, no. That’s not what people are saying when they talk about how shitty women used to be written in slashfics way back when.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

It's true that often used to happen. But no one said we were explicitly talking about the past? We're talking about what slash shippers are doing now and what people are saying to them now. The complaint that there is an epidemic of woman bashing in slashfic is outdated as hell.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

I know this subthread wasn’t talking about the past, I was referring to another subthread further up, where someone brought up the shitty way women used to be written in slashfics, and someone else immediately assumed the other anon was somehow saying there should be more women front and center in slashfics. Which is such a weird conclusion to come to, that I think that person was either not around when the female character bashing was prevalent, or doesn’t remember/conveniently forgot out of bad faith.

I did bring up the past goings on of that thread in apropos of nothing though, and that’s my bad. I could have just agreed with the anon I was talking to without veering off topic.

And I also didn’t say there was still an epidemic of woman bashing in slash? I used past tense language when talking about it, so I already know it’s outdated.

[(Anonymous)]

+1000000000