[ SECRET POST #5539 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5539 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 45 secrets from Secret Submission Post #793.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

OP

[(Anonymous)]

For me, it's connected to the idea that every single person who's lived long enough has caused harm to someone somewhere. It's inescapable and inevitable no matter how good your intentions. So I try to approach stories with a kind of ... moral humility, I guess? I don't assume I've always been the good guy, and I don't only relate to the good guys. I definitely see myself in villains and antiheroes too, and there's an element of "there but for the grace of...luck really." I think most people are capable of horrible things under certain circumstances. Which I don't see as a condemnation of humanity, just realism.

In a lot of the fandom discourse around redemption arcs, I see a lot of people who only seem to be relating to the point of view of the wronged victim. That's why they react so angrily to perceived pressure to forgive, or accept redemption. And that's a red flag for me. Why are they so quick to only see themselves as an innocent hurt person, and not use the fictional imagination to recognize their own capacity for evil acts, and circumstances under which they might be in need of some mercy and a path to redemption?

Because if there's no path back after doing something bad, then there's not much incentive to get better because there's nothing to hope for. That's why organizations like Life After Hate and movements like prison abolition are so important.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

+1000000

Re: OP

[meadowphoenix]

I know we're talking in the other thread but I just wanted to respond to these:
Why are they so quick to only see themselves as an innocent hurt person, and not use the fictional imagination to recognize their own capacity for evil acts, and circumstances under which they might be in need of some mercy and a path to redemption?
Because they know how society works most likely. Society is full of standardized social redemption OP. A lot of it is legal. Again, it's standard in Evangelical communities. Once of the reasons fandom identifies with the victim is they already see the social redemptive path for the person who caused harm, so that's not where the society is lacking for them. It may be much better where you are. But the fact of the matter is that in the US, unless you're a very specific type of victim, it's far more likely you're going to be socially cut off for your trauma responses than it is that someone who harmed you isn't going to be able to participate normally in society. Occasionally the harmful person is a very specific type of person, and they don't get restored to society immediately, but usually the victim has to be retraumatized to have that happen so it's going to feel like in the process of someone's redemption their harm continumes. The justice system is shit honestly.

Because if there's no path back after doing something bad, then there's not much incentive to get better because there's nothing to hope for.
This is very general. Path back where?

That's why...movements like prison abolition are so important.
Jail is socially ritualized redemption, that's the stated philosophical purpose, like if you're good with any type of redemption, jail would be such a type. Do you see why I don't think mercy or generosity applies to this, unless you're being specific about the type of redemption you're talking about?

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

My whole point on this has always been: consider the ways in which you might be a villain in someone else's story. No matter how good you think you are, you probably have been one, to someone, at some time.

It's not about social power or evangelical Christianity specifically. I'm from the Bible Belt, I know this mindset well. There's that Saturday night/Sunday morning dichotomy where you sin wildly and then confess, and get lifted up for it. That's not even what I'm talking about.

It's about being willing to identify with a character that people rush to judge unredeemable, because you see something of yourself in them. Snape, Jim Moriarty, Kylo Ren - they all have moments where I'm like oh fuck that's like me, I've felt that.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

I see good points in both you and OP’s comments, but man your first paragraph is so fucking true!! The justice system is horrible!

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Fandoms also like pointing to innocent hurt characters to contrast with the villains and say that if those characters could suffer without becoming villains, the villains could have done it too, so they don't get a second chance. I wonder if I'd have become a villain if my life had been worse. I wonder if the only reason I'm not a horrible person is because I've had a pretty good life. I wonder if there's some inherent evil in me that just hasn't met the right conditions to be awakened. It sounds dramatic, but the way fandoms talk about characters as if there are good victims (the innocent hurt people) and bad victims (the people who become villains because they were hurt) and the bad ones don't deserve redemption because if they were capable of being good, they would have responded to pain like the innocent hurt people did instead of turning villainous. Maybe real people really are like that and maybe I'm one of them.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

There's no such thing as inherent good or inherent evil in humans, IMO. Humans are morally neutral as a baseline.