fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #815 ]

[ SECRET POST #815 ]

⌈ Secret Post #815 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

[Weird Al Yankovic and Stephen Colbert]

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102. [repeat]

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103.

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104.

[Yu-Gi-Oh]

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105.

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106.

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107. [repeat]

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108.

[Rachael Maddow]

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109.

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110.

[The Office]

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111.

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112.

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113.

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114.

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115.

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116.

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117.

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118.

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119.

[Phantom of the Opera]

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120.

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121.

[previously linked wrong]

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122.

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123.

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124.

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125.

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126.

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127.

[hunter s. thompson]

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128.

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129.

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130.

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131. [repeat]

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132.

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133.

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134.

[Hotel Babylon]

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135.

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136.

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137. [repeat]

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138.

[jake hurwitz]

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139.

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140.

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141.

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142.

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143.

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144.

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145.

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146.

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147.

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148.

[but why not the men?]

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149.

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150.

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151.

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152.

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153.

[Naruto]

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154.

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155.

[Naruto]

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156.

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157.

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158.

[Jade Goody]

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159.

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160.

[previously linked wrong]

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161.

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162.

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163.

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164.

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165.

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166.

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167.

[High School Musical]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 11 pages, 275 secrets from Secret Submission Post #116.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

119. Oh for the love of god...why do people get so obsessed about Erik's "wrong" behavior?! Erik is a SERIAL KILLER, so OF COURSE his behavior is weird. In the book, he actually says "I just wanted a nice little wife I could take out on Sundays...I wanted to be like everyone else, with a nice little wife I could take out on Sundays." That is the basis of the musical, with some romance elements added in, so OF COURSE it's creepy and wrong. It's supposed to be. The fact is that the guy playing Phantom is usually a much better actor/singer than the guy playing Raoul (because, well, one is the main part and the other one is second fiddle), so fans tend to sympathise with Erik.

But seriously, why do YOU, OP, even care that people write it that way? Don't like it, skip it. Their writing of their idealized characters (a "nice" Erik and a "mean" Raoul for Erik to rescue Christine from) is none of your business; it's exactly what ALW is trying to get with his depiction of the characters. Or, better yet, you don't think people should write fic with one character being creepy and wrong? Get out of the Phantom fandom, because unless you're looking for nice Raoul/Christine fic, a lot of it is going to be about Erik, and Erik has issues.

...yeah, and that comment about the movie cast being better than the Broadway? Troll. So obvious troll. You threw that in at the end because you know people go ballistic about that. You're entitled to your opinion, but if you've just made a big long secret bashing the main character of a show THEN you throw in something that you know people get annoyed about...that's just trying to be obnoxious.

*shakes head* I need to work on how loquacious I am! It only took one minute to write, but that's all I'm willing to waste on this secret.

125. Yes, thank you! I like my characters to be strong and have personality. If it's a woman, then I like her. If it's a man, I like him. If the show has no interesting women characters, I don't like them. It's the fault of the writers for not making them interesting enough, not mine for not liking them. *snarl*

133. Heh, yes, I see your problem. But really, if they haven't done anything bad, then just relax, let it go. Judge people on their own merits, OP! ^_^

Your icon and the one above it have me mesmerized...

Hee, thank you! ^___^ My friend made it for me, and I like hypnotizing people (including myself) with it. XDD

Jareth looks hypnotized, too...lol

Well, wouldn't you if you had a pretty shiny crystal going back and forth in front of your eyes...?

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Sorry, got distracted by the pretty shiny crystal going back and forth in front of my eyes ;)

If you mean this one too, then thank you. :¬) Gilbert was a one-off character in one ep of "Being Human", and seriously, he needs his own show now...even if he *is* a ghost. *g*

Yeah, that one, too. Watching them both together is really addicting...

How are they bashing the character if what they say is true?

It is bashing the main character because OP is saying that "a man who does X, Y and Z" is EVIIIIIIIIL! And also that their POV and interpretation is OMGTHEONLYTRUEONE and everyone else is wrong, and is furthermore not permitted to write whatever they please. No one denies that Erik is creepy, it's kind of the point. But it's still bashing the character to go on and on about how many types of creepy it is and how anyone who doesn't realise it has issues, and then say snidely "You know, the more romantic quote? That wasn't Phantom."

It is in all cases bashing. If they said "I love this character but I admit X, Y and Z about him", that is not bashing. But no, they said "Character did X, Y, and Z, and is EVIL!", and that is bashing.

But hey, OP would be a wrong little bitch either way you go about it.

Right.

Secret doesn't say he is evil (though I don't think the secret maker would necessarily be wrong by most people's standards, considering he is a serial killer, if they did say that. Many people also consider abusive men to be pretty evil as well). Secret says his behavior is very wrong and abusive. Secret maker is correct. Therefore they are not bashing his character.

Bashing his character would be to say 'HE KILLS AND RAPES EVERYTHING THAT MOVES!!' or 'HE IS SUCH A SLUT' because that is false. What the secret maker said is not false, as it is firmly backed by canon (they even kindly provided quotes).

I'm not touching whether they are ship/shipper bashing because I'm in the fandom. Just the character bashing bit.

The person is bashing those who even like Erik more than Raoul. Perhaps it was just the way it was phrased, but "Sick and tired of phanbrats painting him as some martyr who lost to that evil abusive pretty-boy fop Raoul" definitely begs a response from some of those "phanbrats," which I take a rather hefty amount of offense at. I don't even ship Christine/Erik, but I do ship Erik with far more interesting characters than Christine, (also I think the Erik/Christine ship brings out each of their issues, rather than working through them). However, apart from that, I would rather ship Erik/Christine than Raoul/Christine, which is boring. There's no plot except the two of them being sickeningly cutesy. Of course, I might have spent too long reading Iago-as-a-little-black-dress fic, so my "abusive and manipulative" standards when reading fic might be down.

That being said, I would much rather write and read fic dealing with Erik than dealing with Christine and Raoul. And, doing that well involves making Erik a martyr of sorts (actually, making Erik a martyr is kind of canon; the book makes him a martyr, particularly with that wonderful end scene where Erik is crying "she kissed me!" over and over again after he let Christine go away with Raoul). So, yes, I do make Erik a martyr of sorts, a martyr of his own past. Erik did have issues, including the complete insanity by the end of the book, however to say he might have had reasons for those issues is some of the complexity that is left out of the OP's secret.

different anon

"Sick and tired of phanbrats painting him as some martyr who lost to that evil abusive pretty-boy fop Raoul"

hit a nerve, did they? sounds like you're butthurt that your likes were called out in a secret. just admit that you care about what one anon on the ENTIRE INTERNET might think about you and just move on.

I said in my comment, I'm only referring to character bashing, not ship/shipper or indeed character fans. Martyr? It does not mean what you think it means. Deciding to not force Christine/unnecessrily kill people etc. a martyr does not usually make. Frankly, what you describe still falls under the creepy, obsessed and fucked up in the head category.

I don't care what people ship (I'm not even in this fandom). I ship canon/non-canon ships. I ship 'boring' and 'interesting' ships, I ship healthy and and non-healthy ships. But I do get pissed when people completely gloss over all the issues, because then it's no longer the ship I ship, but is just something else with their names tagged on. Why ship something so dysfunctional and interesting to you and then take away everything that made it interesting and dysfunctional?

I'm a Snape fan who has to sift through countless woobie fanfics/essays/fanworks and so forth stripping him of everything that made him interesting, I come across too many comments who blame Lily for how he turned out because she didn't fall into his arms (and James for 'stealing' her from Snape), so I can understand where the OP is coming from in their frustration about Erik's characterization and the ship itself.

Just to chime in, Erik would've ended up in jail or a mental asylum if he was arrested. Or executed, considering the time period. While he may not be "evil", he certainly wasn't a good man by any stretch of the imagination.

Agree with you on your other points, though.

Why don't people get obsessed over Phantom's behavior? To be honest I have never seen anyone else give the opinion that the Phantom is anything but a sexy woobie Underneath It All.

Why does anyone feel strongly about anything? For my part I happen to care about what is presented/accepted as a mature romantic relationship because art imitates life and vice-versa. It's a tad (read: very) disconcerting to see P/C glossed over as a perfect love story ruined by someone who, gads, notices that being kidnapped by a serial killer isn't exactly healthy. It makes me slightly worried about what those fans will accept as "true love" IRL.

For that matter I could ask you why you care so much about my opinion to sacrifice any amount of your time on it. (Me? I like fandom debate and defending my honor.)

Also, troll = not so much. I prefer the movie cast. I don't think Emmy Rossum is OMGterrible, and Butler, while not the best vocalist, has a more seductive quality to his voice than Crawford does imo.

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[ SECRET POST #815 ]

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