[ SECRET POST #815 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #815 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.
[Weird Al Yankovic and Stephen Colbert]


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102. [repeat]


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103.


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104.
[Yu-Gi-Oh]


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105.


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106.


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107. [repeat]


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108.
[Rachael Maddow]


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109.


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110.
[The Office]


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111.


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112.


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113.


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114.


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115.


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116.


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117.


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118.


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119.
[Phantom of the Opera]


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120.


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121.
[previously linked wrong]


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122.


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123.


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124.


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125.


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126.


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127.
[hunter s. thompson]


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128.


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129.


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130.


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131. [repeat]


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132.


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133.


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134.
[Hotel Babylon]


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135.


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136.


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137. [repeat]


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138.
[jake hurwitz]


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139.


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140.


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141.


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142.


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143.


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144.


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145.


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146.


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147.


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148.
[but why not the men?]


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149.


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150.


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151.


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152.


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153.
[Naruto]


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154.


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155.
[Naruto]


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156.


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157.


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158.
[Jade Goody]


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159.


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160.
[previously linked wrong]


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161.


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162.


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163.


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164.


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165.


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166.


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167.
[High School Musical]



Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 11 pages, 275 secrets from Secret Submission Post #116.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[jlh.livejournal.com]

I think that the OP needed to make a few things clearer:

1) That they meant only shows that are male-targeted action shows. I really don't think of DS9 as a show like that, and I guess that photo of Candice Bergen isn't from Boston Legal, eh?

What I said about kicking ass—I don't care for male-targeted action shows. I do like, say, Robin and Lily on HIMYM, and I'm not sure where they would exist on the continuum you've talked about here. Robin was a "love interest" at one time, but is also a lot of other things; Lily's a friend. I'm not even sure Ted counts as the "hero."

If you sense frustration, yeah, I'm frustrated that every time people talk about female characters, they talk about them ONLY in the context of these kinds of shows, of shounen shows whether they're manga or not. I'll take your word for it that apparently they fall into one of two categories. In other shows, especially ones that don't have this male hero, that isn't the case. Those are the shows I watch; those are the female characters I like.

2) Who are these fandom feminists so often referred to? I don't think they're fandom-wide. There's no one in Idolfandom or HIMYM fandom beseeching me to like the ladies. And I don't remember that term floating around back in the day in HP, either.

[riviyan-questa.livejournal.com]

I don't think of DS9 as a male-targeted action show either. I think most of the viewers were female, actually. At least, most of the fans of DS9 that I know are female. And it was a lot less about the action (compared to other Star Treks), and more about the characters and politics. There is the action-y episodes, too, and I like them, but I prefer character and plot-centric stories.

I think you said it best in your comment, too, that there are female characters with their own stories that you don't like, but that there are men with their own stories that you don't like, too. That is pretty much exactly how I feel. A character's gender doesn't really have an impact on whether or not I like them.

[cleverthylacine]

I think jlh was looking at that secret and seeing "male-targeted"; I looked at that secret and saw "geek-targeted".

[riviyan-questa.livejournal.com]

Yeah so did I... I guess some people still think that 'male-targeted' and 'geek-targeted' are the same thing, so I can see how it would be misread.

part 1

[cleverthylacine]

1) You can only talk about what you know. I would guess that like me, the OP would consider watching a sitcom if there were a gun pointed at her head, maybe. (OK, I like Weeds--but it's about drug dealers in the suburbs.) Boston Legal and DS9 are not male-targeted action shows, but many people who primarily enjoy cop shows do also like Boston Legal and DS9 is science fiction. I have no clue how to answer your comment about HIMYM because I don't watch shows like that and if I had made this secret I wouldn't have been thinking of it either. I watch science fiction, House (which is practically SF given the outre medicine in it), fantasy/horror like Supernatural, and some of the geekier crime shows like Numb3rs. I don't think of these shows as "male-targeted action shows", I think of them as "geek-targeted shows", and I tend not to enjoy "normal-people-targeted shows" about people who live in the here and now and have normal, everyday problems. That's what I see in the OP's secret. I have no idea what the writing is like on shows about people who live in the here and now and have normal, everyday problems because the only shows like that I watch are...no, actually, nobody on Weeds or Profit has normal, everyday problems. *shrug*. If I want normal, I don't have to turn on the TV, you know?

Fandom is primarily oriented toward geeky shows because most of us are geeks. I'm always surprised that shows about people who live in the here and now and have normal, everyday problems even have a fandom, so I'm not surprised that you're frustrated, but it's not because we only like male-targeted shows. Supernatural is becoming more and more female-targeted now that the CW has realised who actually watches it. Moonlight, True Blood and the like are female-targeted. Xena and Buffy (neither of which were my thing particularly, but that's because I am not so fond of bad mythology--I can barely tolerate some of the Supernatural myth-fail) were female-targeted.

2) You're in Idolfandom and HIMYM fandom. Those are definitely shows I think of as shows that people who are not geeks watch. If you were in Supernatural fandom, I guarantee you would be sick to death of these people unless you were one of them--they are always ripping on people who don't like it that the CW casts girls for this show on hotness and tends to drop them if they don't have chemistry with the male leads, and people who enjoy the older female characters that occasionally show up and the male recurring characters more than they enjoy the 18-35 eye candy. Also, many of them only want to hear about your love for poor lost Jo if you agree with them that she should be shipped with Dean because what a lot of them really are is frustrated het-shippers who are annoyed that slash is more popular in the fandom. I am a feminist. I put the quotes around "fandom feminists" because I don't think these people are really all that feminist--they care more about the respect fictional characters get (despite being plot coupons) than they care about respecting the other women who are in the fandom with them. You're also not in bandom, where there are all these huge arguments about musicians' wives and girlfriends that I don't even pay attention to because I don't care. Unless they are making the music, they're not relevant to me. (I got in so much trouble in SPN fandom for saying that about the girlfriend of one of the actors who was in one episode playing a bit part--I didn't care about their breakup or why they broke up because she has no more to do with SPN than the actor who played Random Redshirt 12 in episode 73 has to do with Star Trek.)

part 2

[cleverthylacine]

I don't know what side of HP fandom you were on, but there was a lot of "support all female characters regardless of how badly written they are" after Book 6. There was a whole lot of this garbage coming out of the sore-winner side who couldn't handle it that everybody who liked the Slytherins or shipped something that wasn't OBHWF didn't line up to lick their e-peen for correctly guessing Jo's intentions after book 6 came out; if you were disappointed that Ginny hadn't actually got over her sixth-grade crush and grown up, but was rather only using the boys who liked her to pretend disinterest until Harry got a clue, or if you thought Hermione shouldn't be dating someone whose behaviour provoked her to committing violent acts and dating dangerous losers, you were slut-shaming and hated your vag. Also, if you thought it was lame that a kickass character like Tonks was reduced to listless incompetence because she couldn't get a particular man to notice her (and then knocked up and killed off in the subsequent book) clearly you were a delusional Remus/Sirius shipper who just couldn't handle not getting your pairing and who didn't understand that women have the right to Be Women (sorry, I don't define the right to Be A Woman as the right to lose my edge in wartime because I can't get a date with the guy I want). I had all three of those unacceptable thoughts so I heard a lot of this crap.

So yeah, it's there in HP, but if you are a big fan of Books 6 and 7 you probably never noticed it because it wasn't directed in your general direction.