fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #818 ]

⌈ Secret Post #818 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Homefront]

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[Louis Theroux and Jael Phelps]

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[Code Geass]

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(Family Guy/Seth Macfarlane)

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[Elite Beat Agents]

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(Princess Resurrection)

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[Harry Potter]

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[Watchmen]

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[Where The Wild Things Are]

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[Eminem/Green Day/The New York Dolls]

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[Wolverine and the X-Men]

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[Fallout 3]

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[FFX]

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[Silent Hill]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 077 secrets from Secret Submission Post #117.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

112 But what about Boromir and Faramir? I mean, the subtext is there (plus, Boromir just loves those adorable hobbits!)

125 It sounds computerized...

129 He does have personality -- but he's a total dick.

130 That's okay as long as you are 100% okay with men having objectifying lesbian fantasies about women.

147 Sunrise likes killing off all of the loved characters
Yes, welcome to about 20 years ago.

150 So what makes you think she ended up a trophy wife just because she had a child and "settled down" to raise that child? If having and raising children was antifeminist, we wouldn't have any more feminists because no one would have children.

151 A lot of great characters start out as Mary-Sue-like until you flesh them out enough to become "real" characters. So if you stop writing, you'll never fully develop your characters at all. Besides, it's not like you have to share everything you write/produce with everyone right away.

169 You do know that the God in Battlestar Galactica as described as Gaius Baltar is, for all intents and purposes, pretty much exactly like the God that Jews believe in? Too bad you were too wrapped up in your fallacious idea of "Judeo-Christianity," as if such a thing exists (hint: Christians and Jews don't believe the same things).

Edited 2009-04-02 22:52 (UTC)

Don't you get it?! Objectification doesn't matter if you're a woman!

Purely for the sake of academic thread-pulling, there's probably a good discussion to be had on the differences between objectification of men by women, and of women by men. For one thing, slash is never going to have the same mainstream power to foisting itself (ubiquitously and inescably) on male viewers/readers/gamers the way the male gaze does. For another, women who read or write slash are very very unlikely to ever be able to impose their fantasies on real live men. (I can't imagine slash has any impact on human traficking, for instance, while men's porn demonstrably does.)

On the other hand, one could argue that any media which objectifies a kind of character which can be mapped on to real people is immoral regardless of cultural context. (By mapping I mean slashed characters can be mapped onto real gay men in the same way that the fictitious sex-receptacles of porn are mapped onto real women.)

Still, it's by no means as straightforward as a simple switcheroo.

Yeah, I agree with this. My feelings on it are actually pretty complex, but I feel like no one should get a free pass.

For another, women who read or write slash are very very unlikely to ever be able to impose their fantasies on real live men.

Stick around, there's bound to be another secret come up from a poster who laments that they will never find a real life man like (insert fandom character here) or how (insert fandom character) has ruined all men for them because they'll never find one as perfect as said fandom character.

if that's not imposing their fantasies on real life men, i'm not sure what is.

I don't see that that follows at all, actually.

What real man is hurt or diminished by the fact that a woman doesn't find him attractive? The worst any man will suffer from that is that a potential relationship fails because the woman's preferences make them incompatible? So what - relationships due to all kinds of incompatibility issues. It may suck, but it's not in any way harming the man involved. A woman doesn't owe it to any man to be attracted to him, and her reasons for it are her own business.

In that scenario, nothing is being imposed on anybody.

129 Smallville was especially painful to me when I watched it for this reason. alskdf *head smack* For all the faults, Superman Returns was good at least in that I didn't think their Superman was like that.

Well fuck you very much. I am well aware that Jews and Christians don't believe in all the same things, but they do both accept the God of the Old Testament/Torah.

The Christian idea of God differs greatly from the Jewish idea of God.

Thanks for the needless profanity.

That's okay as long as you are 100% okay with men having objectifying lesbian fantasies about women.

You mean it can be stopped?

Uhm, no, that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I was talking about whether or not women feel comfortable with male fantasies about lesbians. I mean, since the OP was simply outraged that some men might be offended by female fantasies regarding homosexual male relationships.

Nobody's talking about whether or not you can prevent either men or women from having objectifying fantasies about the opposite sex.

Thankx. Finally, some real support instead of people going "The names suck. Change them."

I mean, damn! I chose the goddamn names for a goddamn reason! I just didn't thought about objects to gave my characters their names!

Anyways, I've been working on those fics for months. At least, inside my mind. Those three characters changed a lot as the time passed and they are still changing.

I think I should stop worrying about the others for a second and worry about myself for a change.

Thing is, men have been objectifying women and lesbian fantasies since pretty much the beginning of time, and even nowadays nobody really minds all that pseudo-lesbian porn targeted at men. Have you ever seen people rallying against "lesbo porn" because it's unrealistic?

But when it comes to slash for some reason people get all "OMG NOT REALISTIC!! YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!! REAL GAY MEN ARE NOT LIKE THAT!!" So... *shrug*

Maybe I'm a bad feminist but I don't really mind the fact that men objectify lesbians in their fantasies. Because duh, it really can't be helped, fantasies are not supposed to be PC. My problem is that objectification of women by men is all over mainstream media, forced on men and women alike, accepted as perfectly normal. Which really can't be said about slash.

I understand that, but I'm still of the opinion that it's hypocritical to perpetuate the same behavior that we find reprehensible in the opposite sex. I guess I don't operate under the principles of what's "fair" but instead what is "just". Just because men objectify and get away with it doesn't make it morally or ethically okay for us to do it as well.

Oh, and I like your icon.

I think it also matters that when men objectify women they do so by turning them into sex objects. Women turn men into "love objects," which I have to admit is a much nicer form of objectification. One of the common critiques against slash is that women write men as better than they are, and that's not s bad.

[ SECRET POST #818 ]

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