Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2009-04-02 06:08 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2009-04-02 06:08 pm
[ SECRET POST #818 ]
⌈ Secret Post #818 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
101.
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[Homefront]
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[Louis Theroux and Jael Phelps]
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[Code Geass]
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(Family Guy/Seth Macfarlane)
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[Elite Beat Agents]
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(Princess Resurrection)
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[Harry Potter]
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[Watchmen]
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[Where The Wild Things Are]
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[Eminem/Green Day/The New York Dolls]
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[Wolverine and the X-Men]
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[Fallout 3]
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[FFX]
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[Silent Hill]
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 077 secrets from Secret Submission Post #117.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
130
Just because it is about women's psychology does not mean men do not matter and that it is okay to objectify a group of people for "sexual expression," especially if you are writing about that group. You would probably get your panties in a bunch about men writing lesbians and how unrealistic they can be. Neither are okay, and I think it's important to be realistic so people stop getting preconceived ideas about gay men and women, especially if it is a stereotype and otherwise, harmful.
Also, self-lubricating anuses and sticking a dick into an anus that needs prep? Not hot. I prefer it realistic, and no, there wouldn't be more shit. Real gay porn is a lot less exciting, imo, but the only "gross" factor is body hair (unless you go looking for browndicks).
Re: 130
We can enjoy shoot outs and axe murderers without thinking it's a good thing to have bullets flying in the street and a psycho killer in the city.
Can't people enjoy a sexual fantasy without a guilt trip being attached to it? Must we always feel bad about our sexuality?
Re: 130
Re: 130
(Anonymous) 2009-04-02 11:49 pm (UTC)(link)Re: 130
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Re: 130
I guess the ultimate question is -- is offending people enough of a reason to move to censorship? Should one person, by right of being offended, have control over what another person reads and writes?
Re: 130
Okay, first, it's "concerned." For your future reference.
Second, did you SERIOUSLY just refer to those within the community willing to call people out on the wrongness of objectification and fetishization of a group as being the dumbest members of the community?
This isn't about people being unable to separate fantasy from reality. It's about people seeing harmful views perpetuated in fantasy to the point that the underlying views of those creating that fantasy come into question. And those harmful views? Should be questioned and those holding such views should be held accountable.
Also, really really not about censorship, so you can put that little soapbox back in storage for the duration of this conversation.
Re: 130
You missed on who I was referring with the "dumbest members of the community." Unless you really want to put yourself in that category. I don't know. Might have made for a better argument if I had.
No the dumb people are those who think BL is a realistic depiction of gays, which is the reason why it's not okay for people to enjoy BL style depictions of gays. I'd put you in the "easily offended" category, which is totally different.
Re: 130
Re: 130
Speaking for the other poster here, but I think that may have actually been referring to people who can't tell obvious fantasy from reality, i.e. why should we (as a community) be concerned about people who can't distinguish between the two [if they are minority - that's an assumption, though] at the expense of everyone else.
"Questioning" the "harms" of various types of sexual expression has, in fact, led to shit like this (http://www.writersunion.ca/av_pr220107.asp). That's rather outside the scope of discussion about slash fiction on the internet, but worth noting. (http://www.amazon.com/Forbidden-Passages-Writings-Banned-Canada/dp/1573440191) Those book seizures most definitely came out questions about what are "okay" things to express - and what is "objectifying," "degrading," and, y'know, the types of expression people should be protected from because they may be harmful.
So while this topic is not really about censorship (nobody here having the power to do that), it certainly is about a related issue. Namely, the degree to which we feel we can - or should - police other people's sexual expression for causing "harm." What do you mean by, "questioning"? If people HAVE "questioned" their fantasies, recognise they are not realistic and decide to continue on writing and reading them anyway...then what would you suggest? What, exactly is, "being held accountable"?
Re: 130
(Anonymous) 2009-04-02 11:54 pm (UTC)(link)Re: 130
If you want to get off to anal sex or two girls dildoing each other, have at it. You don't have to feel bad for enjoying it; you should feel bad when you think it's okay to only see those people as your personal jerking material. They are people; they are more than things to act out what you want to see.
Re: 130
Or by that do you mean that some writers always write gay men having anal sex -- happens in every single fic, every single scene. If that's the case it may just be that the writer is really really turned on by gay men having anal sex -- and she's simply writing what she likes.
Same thing goes with the retarded male answer. I mean sure, you can cruise the internet and find a guy who is an utter idiot, who has never met a lesbian in his life. But why is his opinion so darned important. And why should our sex fantasies be the place where we educate these oafs?
Re: 130
...because their ideas about sexuality are harmful to those of that sexuality and limits everyone. They might be fully aware that is not the case, in fact; but they can still only see those people as objects and that (this should sound familiar) their opinion does not matter, despite being what is objectified. That is Not Okay.
Re: 130
All gay men have anal sex is usually accompanied by strict top and bottom roles that perpetuates the idea one man has to fit into the female gender role.
Re: 130
But I know it does turn on other people. There are a lot of girls who really really identify with the uke in the BL -- and so in a way the gay man is standing in for a woman. It's a kink. It hits some women's sweet spots -- they really enjoy it.
I think the mistake is to assume they are going to use their love of BL to actually influence their real life behavior towards gay men. I think that that's a stretch -- and not enough to make these girls feel guilty about the fics they enjoy.
Re: 130
'Cause, you know, bottoming? Is about bottoming. Not being female. Can we untangle that, too? The whole hidden collection of assumptions here that female sexuality = "the bottom," or that female sexuality = passive, or even that being a bottom = a passive sexuality (if such a thing exists), NONE of which are necessarily true.
Oh, and anything I missed. I'm sure there's something. :P
Re: 130
Carry on. :)
Re: 130
I'm fucking sick and tired of this stereotype.
Re: 130
(Anonymous) 2009-04-03 01:15 pm (UTC)(link)I have strict top/bottom roles for MY IDEAS OF FANTASY and I can assure you this has NOTHING to do with cramming a guy into a female gender role. it has everything to do with what I find HOT.
and I'm a gay man writing slash.
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See, I knew there was a reason I don't go near RPF with a 20-foot-pole, and stick to fictional characters in my writing and reading.
Re: 130
I've been harping on this ever since I became involved in English-speaking fandoms, but you said it better than I ever could. I'm bookmarking to link to it next time someone gets all "OMG YOUR FANTASY IS NOT REALISTIC YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG."