fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #829 ]

[ SECRET POST #829 ]

⌈ Secret Post #829 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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[The Nostalgia Critic]

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[Sarah Vowell and Kate Beaton]

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[Mean Girls]

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[Darkwing Duck]

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[DC Comics]

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[Mirandasings08]

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[24]

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[One Piece]

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[Worst Witch]

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[Prison Break]

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[Storm Hawks]

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[David Cameron/Barack Obama]

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[Supernatural]

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[Robin Hood BBC]

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[Rachel Maddow]

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[Heroes]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 13 pages, 210 secrets from Secret Submission Post #119.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Seriously: Is there a universe in which people can not care for Watchmen and not be told they "didn't get it"? Because I'm still not seeing one.

oh you can, but the person pretty much outright said they didn't get it.

Yes. See I can get not liking it and having understood it, but barely anyone who *doesn't* like it says "it wasn't for me," they say it was "bad." What pisses me off, (and probably other fans who end up retorting "they don't get it") is when someone says it wasn't a good movie/a good solid film because they don't like it. I hated Dark Knight but I will never ever say it wasn't good. THAT'S why people get crazy.

...but have you considered the possibility it's not a good movie/a good solid film? There are definitely people who have given stupid reasons for calling it a bad movie ("this movie says lesbians are evil therefore it is bad and the people who like it are bad people"), but even a lot of fans of the comic have said that the movie wasn't a great movie. As a huge fan of the comic, I think the movie is highly enjoyable but highly flawed.

Nope. I watch a lot of films and I'm sorry it's not bad. It's just not. I will never argue that it's not flawed, but bad? Jesus what are we comparing it to?

I think there are some people who should take the "it wasn't for me" route, but others who are fully within their rights to just say it was bad.

I love the comic. I love comic-adaptations and movies that deal with darker issues, but I really disliked Watchmen. I felt it was sub-par. *shrug*

Sorry. Not buying it. I'm sorry, it just wasn't "bad." Bad is Battle Field Earth. Bad is The Hottie and The Nottie. This wasn't a "bad" movie. I will never say it was perfect, but a bad movie? There was no way this book was ever going to be a movie and have it be completely successful, but sub-par? Cripes. The acting? Awesome. Casting? Dead On. The imagery and use of music? Stunning. Flawed maybe, sub par compared to what?

There's something a bit double-standardy about saying that there is absolutely objectively no possible way that the film could be considered 'bad', while insisting that those who want to make similar objective statements that it was bad preface with a disclaimer of personal preference.

I think that there are aspects of the film one can look at and say "this is badly done". When I watched it, I felt that the pacing was subpar, with a lot of time spent hashing out relatively simple (if interestingly novel) subversions of superhero tropes, followed by a massive dump of trite truisms in the last twenty minutes which the movie then left no time to explore. To me, that makes it a bad film from the point of view of storytelling (though not necessarily in terms of character or world building). I don't feel the need to temper that with a copy of my own psych write-up or anything.

Riffing off the original secret, I too really wish the "you missed the point" reaction could be Old Meme already. The movie's interesting, but it's not a bottomless pit of profundity. We're not talking onion-like layers of artistic nuance here.

"There's something a bit double-standardy about saying that there is absolutely objectively no possible way that the film could be considered 'bad', while insisting that those who want to make similar objective statements that it was bad preface with a disclaimer of personal preference."

I am terrible at communication. I'm sorry. I just mean I can't ever say it was bad. It just won't happen, I don't think it. I have no idea how I am supposed to defend something I thought was beautiful and touched me, with out saying it wrong.

I think I have been beyond diplomatic about my feelings for other films (that will remain nameless) and just wish people would do the same.

I agree on the pacing, but with out it being a few movies, there was no avoiding it. (Hell, I'm still fuming all the Bernie/Bernard stuff was cut in favor of other things.)

Well, that's your opinion.

I thought the some of the acting was good and some of it was godawful. The casting was 50-50 for me. The imagery was great, I'll grant you that (although I found the glorification of the violence distasteful). The music? Good music, horrible use of it. Cheesy and obvious.

But those are all my opinions. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, and I think you're fully within your rights to like the film.

From my perspective, it was sub-par compared to a lot of movies. And so what if the chances of it becoming a movie were low? Personally, I could have done without the film (in this incarnation) entirely.

Obviously that is my opinion. What I think was never an issue. This whole thread is making my head hurt. All I set out to say was that there are people out there who will say it, OR OTHER FILMS are bad, just because they don't like them and that that in no way makes it true. That's all. I didn't set out to argue about this film.

Last bit on the film from your comment:
I must say about the music though- it was used like it was used in any other non-super hero movie that has used non-incidental music. Especially period pieces, and this was. Ever see Almost Famous? Steal This Movie? Forest Gump?

So, it's good because you say it's good? Films don't have to be eye-gougingly horrendous (ala a Paris Hilton movie) to be sub-par. They really, really don't.

However, sitting through Watchmen was tedious and unpleasant for me. That's why I thought it was a bad movie. You disagreeing with me doesn't make your opinion fact, and I never claimed that my opinion was fact either.

Also, Watchmen isn't a nostalgic film like Forest Gump or Almost Famous, which is why the mood the music set was so jarring for me.

So, it's good because you say it's good?

How did that happen? I didn't say my word was fact, I am just boggled that it's wrong for me to not agree that something was bad If I don't. Where did I ever say no one could think it was bad? I just said I'm not going to agree that it was bad. I refuse to say it and that makes me wrong? I'm not telling anyone they should think it's good. Am I missing something? (I'm not being sarcastic, I just honestly can't tell.)

Films don't have to be eye-gougingly horrendous (ala a Paris Hilton movie) to be sub-par. They really, really don't.

Sub par means below average. Below what average, your average super hero movie? Your average pop-corn summer action flick? Your average superhero-as-social-commentary film? What are we comparing it to? Sorry I'm a student of arts and entertainment, literally, and this sort of conversation is of great interest to me.

However, sitting through Watchmen was tedious and unpleasant for me. That's why I thought it was a bad movie. You disagreeing with me doesn't make your opinion fact, and I never claimed that my opinion was fact either.

See? There's where I am getting confused, at some point me refusing to say it was bad turned into me saying no one could say it was bad and that makes no sense. Where did that start? I'm sorry you didn't like it, but I felt the same damn way about The Dark Knight and man I'd have an army of fan-dorks ripping me a new hole if I ever said it was bad. I'm...twitchy about this sort of thing now. Fandom and the internet are...scary places.

Also, Watchmen isn't a nostalgic film like Forest Gump or Almost Famous, which is why the mood the music set was so jarring for me.

That is perfectly fine and makes sense. The whole film/book has a theme of Nostalgia actually so it makes sense they chose the music they did. But different strokes different folks. (Also most of the songs were taken from the comic)

I'm sorry if any of this came of combative, I'm sure it did, but I want to thank you for chatting with me.

Edited 2009-04-14 21:17 (UTC)

TBH, I have seen people say they didn't like it who didn't get told they didn't get it. However, by say that Rorschach &c. they were basically pointing out that they didn't really get it.

This.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #829 ]

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Speaking for me....

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Speaking for me.

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