[ SECRET POST #5714 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5714 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 100 secrets from Secret Submission Post #818 .
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[meadowphoenix]

I wouldn't say Erik is a less sophisticated muse than Sweeney OP.

[(Anonymous)]

LOLOL. Yeah. As characters, Erik is definitely the more sophisticated!

I figure they meant the composers, Sondheim vs Lloyd Webber. There's a lot of Sondheim snobbery in musical theater fandom.

[meadowphoenix]

oooh, you're probably not wrong. as much as I dislike webber personally he's clearly just as good as sondheim.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's fair to call Sondheim more musically sophisticated. Sweeney Todd plays constantly with variations on the Dies Irae theme. However, I love early ALW shows. Not everything has to be the height of musical sophistication. That's not what I personally love musicals for!

[meadowphoenix]

Yes, Sweeney Todd is typical of Sondheim's variation method of songwriting and varying methods of songwriting can be wonderful to listen to, I can agree with that!

I don't think you're giving Phantom enough credit, but as you say, that's fine.

ayrt

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, I totally love Phantom! It's my favourite musical of all time. I also love Les Mis, and Sweeney Todd is probably in third place.

I do agree that people often don't credit shows like Phantom enough - people generally love writing off and insulting ALW. Hell, I like insulting ALW for "Love Never Dies", lol. And I haven't really listened to most of his shows since the early 90s, as what I heard from them didn't grab me. Still love Phantom, Evita, and JCS!

Re: ayrt

[meadowphoenix]

I have a bias, which is that I absolutely love Cats, and I think it's extremely well put together and compelling considering it's essentially a vaudeville show with religious cats. So tbf, my taste may be considered questionable.

[(Anonymous)]

Erik the character is more sophisticated than Sweeney. Erik the narrative device is arguably less so. The music is a toss-up.

However, Sweeney wins any hypothetical competition between the two solely based on the fact that ST’s bloodbath ending spares the rest of us from any ‘Love Never Dies’ style nonsense.

[(Anonymous)]

Hah, yes. If only the show had ended like the novel. Love Never Dies is a fucking travesty.

[(Anonymous)]

They do a sequel called “Love Died All Over the Place” that’s just the aftermath of prior events and ends with vandals burning down the pie shop.

[meadowphoenix]

if you read it as a man fantasizing about his divorce in a way that makes him feel better, it's very funny.

[(Anonymous)]

Hahaha, I totally agree. It's ALW's self-insert fanfic.

[meadowphoenix]

Erik the narrative device is arguably less so.
Could you say more?

[(Anonymous)]

Sophisticated has multiple meanings. If we’re going with “cultured,” then Erik is ahead. If we’re going with “complex,” then, narratively speaking, Erik is a well-executed fairy tale trope. That’s not a criticism, by the way. It’s hard to tell a simple story well and it’s something that ALW excels at.

[(Anonymous)]

Hmm, fair point in a way, but at the same time, Sweeney Todd comes from a penny dreadful and became popular as a piece of 19th century melodrama, so I'm not sure they're that different.

[(Anonymous)]

We’re talking about the musicals, not the source material. ALW simplified the source material in Phantom, as is his custom. Sondheim complicated the hell out of the source material in Sweeney, also his custom. In both cases, it probably worked out for the better.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed.

[meadowphoenix]

I think Sweeney Todd is (more) layered, but it's also intentionally convenient in a way that is pat. I wouldn't necessarily say that is more complex than the more naturalistic Phantom.