[ SECRET POST #5784 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5784 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 48 secrets from Secret Submission Post #828.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[meadowphoenix]

I don't think this is a fair understanding of the conversation at the time, which is mostly a conflict/discussion over whether he meant the reading any person picked or not. in fact, I would say this was mostly the conversation about Whedon, even starting with Buffy. do eye find it sketch when feminist men always talk about sexism through the lens of how much mean hurt women? yes. but that's because I am perpetually skeptical about feminist men. other people who thought he was thoughtful about it likely found this short a confirmation of what they believed, that he understand how much men, good and bad, project on women at the expense of their personhood/life.

full disclosure: i still don't think the natasha/red room is shitty. of course natasha thinks she was a monster for not being able to bear children...she was brainwashed and sterilized in order to think that exact thing so she'd be a more compliant and loyal assassin. i think it's reasonable to be weirded out that the narrative never seems to comment on this, and it's fair to be weirded out that whedon keeps doing this to his female characters, but it's actually a nice character beat in universe imo.

[(Anonymous)]

it's fair to be weirded out that whedon keeps doing this to his female characters

GOD does he ever keep doing this to his female characters, though!

I agree that it makes sense in the context of the movie separate from the creator - if you take the movie in isolation, it's not a bad character beat. But at this point, I'm pretty much unwilling to accept any variation on this from Joss, regardless of what he does to try to justify it in-universe. The consistency of the pattern is just too much.

[meadowphoenix]

yeah i understand this immensely

[(Anonymous)]

the thing about the natasha/red room thing is that that's not even something that whedon made up. richard k morgan came up with that a decade before age of ultron was released and it's a consistent themes in stories where natasha is the focus (most notably marjorie liu's the name of the rose). and yeah, she does have complicated feelings about it. was that handled super gracefully in the movie? no, but the fandom's reaction to her opening up to bruce/showing interest in him was way grosser to me than the actual scene.

[meadowphoenix]

i actually really loved bruce/natasha, again I think it actually was a really nice character beat for both of them, and thanks for the comics info! that's really cool to know. i still think whedon including that point and her relationship with Bruce is whedon-ish so i get why people find it emblematic of his treatment of female characters....but yeah i really liked it and i wasnt fond of non-whedon criticism about it