fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5815 ]

[ SECRET POST #5815 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5815 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 17 secrets from Secret Submission Post #832.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
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Tbh.

I get not liking cloti, but it’s pretty wild to interpret the crush as one sided when Cloud himself admits to having it lol. He Lmao hit joins the military to get her attention. I always wonder what people with this interpretation think happened under the Highwind. that

Calm down Clotis

To be fair, people only discuss which ship is better because both have strong basis in canon.

Anon Ayrt was responding to.

I am a Cloti shipper, but I’m also a multishipper, and I haven’t said anything to imply I’m against “competition” ships like Clerith. Because I’m not against it, I love it too. So I don’t have anything to “calm down” about.

And I know and agree that both ships have a strong basis in canon, even if the creators will probably never make it crystal clear which one is more “canon” romantically. And that’s fine with me. I don’t engage in this ship war, because I like both, and other ships and combinations.

AYRT

Shockingly, I agree both have a strong basis in canon, which is not popular in the cloti fandom these days. Cloud is into Aerith and the clotis are gonna have to find a way to deal with it.

The "clotis shut up" secret it mine. I think my fandom is ass 95% of the time. That doesn't mean I don't think takes like "Cloud didn't have a crush on Tifa" aren't wild.

Meh. I don't have a horse in this race because I'm not interested in either ship but I disagree that Cloud is clearly into Aerith. Or Tifa. Especially in the remake where Aerith is borderline harassing him to his continued indifference/annoyance and Tifa is pining after him to his continued obliviousness.
Honestly, Tifa and Aerith have ten times more chemistry with EACH OTHER.

DA - Are you the "Cloud is aroace" anon? Because that got me thinking since yesterday.

My first thought was "Cloud is a perfectly normal guy to me, no acearo vibes at all". To me, an ace person who was still kinda "eh... am I ??" about being ace when I first got into FFVII/compilation and doesn't exude acearo vibes either lol. And I seem to project quite strongly into him so I've been having an "EH... EH?" moment since yesterday.

At the same time, everyone seems to agree that Final Fantasy VII is the horniest FF/highest sexual energy/whatever and it's just... funny to me. I don't know. A lot to think about

I'm not but I'm ace too and I can actually kinda see it.

Though to be honest, I always saw Cloud as more of a person who was just too... traumatized, depressed, preoccupied with circumstances and too lost in his own head to actually care romantically for another person. I never actually felt any trace of romantic or sexual tension from him towards any other character. From others towards him? Yes. From him towards others? Nope.

AYRT - Yeah, this, actually. His life... was pretty bad and I think his apathy/hurt, in a way, is even more clear in the remake. So I guess I agree with you.

AYRT - Oh, is it not? Honestly I have no idea what Cloti fans think of Clerith nowadays. Back then the "slut argument" ran rampant.

No, I agree that it's wild. Then again, I feel like every interpretation is valid and this is why people keep discussing these ships. Besides, the compilation is so huge that depending on what one has been (more) exposed to it's possible they'll see things from a different angle. While I can't disagree that Cloud had a crush on Tifa in the past (that is canon, after all) I can see why some people might argue that he didn't have a crush on her *anymore*. It's not a hill I'd die on but I don't think there is anything in canon, as far as I remember, that outright denies it either.

As for liking I think it's pretty obvious/canon that he liked both. As friends or whatever. And that's enough basis for shipping I guess.

AYRT

Cloti's are really on their high horses these days. The BNFs in the fandom peddle their often incomprehensible machine translated "canon proof" and are condescending af to anyone who disagrees with their interpretation, which is that Cloud never had romantic feelings for Aerith in any capacity in any compilation entry and that the remake somehow proves this.

I think that something ff7 has done, and likely will continue to do, is leave most avenues of interpretation open. The creators talk very clearly in interviews and things like that, but the games/movies themselves stop just shy of ever really confirming anything. You can have 600 utimania/developer quotes that say "Cloud and Tifa confirm feelings of mutual desire under the Highwind" but so long as the game continues to give multiple versions of the scene (including one described as apathetic where nothing meaningful is shared), clotis are gonna have to deal with the fact that it's not "glaringly obvious that cloti is canon."

AYRT - Lol, it's kind of funny though. But FF7 fandom is just this funny mess I guess. Did they even watch FFAC?

Speaking of translations, to this day I want to know where the slut argument came from. Back then, it was pretty popular/widely accepted that Aerith being a "flower girl" was an euphemism for "prostitute" and that when she gave Cloud a flower she was actually "offering her body" because "in Japan flower girl is an euphemism for prostitute". While in all my years of enjoying Japanese media as far as I am concerned people who grow and sell flowers are just people who grow and sell flowers (in Aerith's case as a healer-Cetra-nature-missing-Zack-a-whole-church-to-plant-them-blah-blah). On the other hand I recall Clerith fans clinging to "the mathematical probability of getting Aerith instead of Tifa in the Gold Saucer sequence is 1.x times higher" argument so it was all very funny back then. Good old days, as much as I refuse to touch that fandom with a ten foot pole now because people are crazy and I don't want to be angry at Remake because of them.

Absolutely, yes. It's good because it's open. Compilation gave a lot of answers to some things that were open for interpretation in the OG but OG had a strong narrative on its own and I guess this is why some people don't like compilation. It's good storytelling, and maybe it wouldn't be as good if it didn't allow for multiple readings.
This entire "highwind therefore endgame all ships shut up" business is silly to me though. Firstly because as you say, it's a version of the scene + Word of God about it. Secondly, the discourse seems to imply "he had sex with Tifa therefore he liked her better" and maybe it's my ace ass talking but I don't vibe with that. Besides, at that point he wouldn't have had sex with Aerith unless he was a necrophile. (Which he wasn't as far as I am concerned, though some Clack fic writers would have a talk.)

I don’t see the “Aerith is a slut” argument so much anymore. Clotis are much better at pretending to like her now, just only with Zack and often only to use the ship as a weapon against clerith. Tifa gets slut thrown at her more now, because did you know she dated every boy in her hometown? It’s all so stupid.

I’m a cloti shipper so I can admit this might be my own bias talking, but I genuinely think that both sides just refuse to see what the story is telling them. Sorry clotis, Cloud and Aerith had crushes. She initially chased him because of the shadow of Zack she saw in him but grew to care for him as his own person. She helped break through his false persona to the nerd underneath and has a place in his heart that is hers alone. In a different world, maybe they’d have had a chance. Sorry cleriths, Cloud and Tifa cared for each other from afar their whole lives. Tifa was the only one he would let inside his mind and the only one who could help him heal. On what could be their last night on earth they confess these feelings and sleep together, and the story gives them issues moving forward but it also gives them a (relatively) happy ending. These ships can coexist if we take them for what they are and acknowledge what they both bring to the table.

I once read someone say that Aerith was like fireworks, in that she comes in, is bright and beautiful, but temporary. She makes a big impact but can’t stay. Tifa was like the North Star. Not always the brightest star in the sky, but steady, always there to lead you home. This comparison has stuck with me and really did help me to see the positives in both ships.

AYRT - "Clotis are much better at pretending to like her now" had me laughing, gotta say. Actually I didn't know Tifa dated every boy in her hometown at all. As far as I knew, she was popular and many kids had crushes on her but that's as far as canon goes IIRC. So yeah. No idea where people get some stuff from.

Here is the thing I genuinely don't think that any valid interpretation is wrong. The idea that deep inside Aerith only went after Cloud because she saw Zack and never moved past that is valid too because there's nothing that fully invalidates it either. I just wish people would roll with "that's YOUR interpretation, and that's okay" more often in this fandom. Often I see a lot of "that's your interpretation and it's not valid because blah blah" disregarding that it IS valid because of (some other aspect).

That... is a beautiful comparision to hold on to as a Cloti shipper IMO.

(SA - sorry, forgot to mention. Because if you go past compilation and take those dev notes about the Highwind scene for instance you may go "oh yeah, Cloti canon!". But if you go in the KH direction for instance then it's "oh yeah, Clerith canon!". But in OG and compilation - and Remake so far - there's nothing of the kind. Cloud's heart is more or less a mystery and meant to be as such. And that's the beauty of it IMO.)

Very much this.

I can't even deal with KH. Nomura is a mess. Tifa might be human but she also might be a physical manifestation of Cloud's light, to combat Sephiroth who also might be human or Cloud's inner darkness. I laughed when the ff plot was reduced to statues and a line of text in KH3. And honestly, I ship Aerith with Leon in KH lol. Actually, I ship Cloud with Leon there too. Leon>>>>>>whatever was going on with the ff7 characters lol. Which is funny because I do not like ff8.

It'll be interesting to see where remake goes with things, especially with the Zack of it all. The only thing I know for sure is that clotis and cleriths will argue about it until we're all 80 and in the old folks home.

AYRT - I don't like KH either. Agreed that Leon was better than FF7 characters and I haven't gotten past the first hour of FF8 admittedly.

But the "could be" thing you're saying is exactly how I feel about FF7 itself. Oh yeah, Tifa could be his Northern Star to Aerith's fireworks! Or could be the typhoon to Aerith's air. Or whatever. So affection mechanics favored Aerith in the OG! Maybe because there was something about her story that the devs wanted us to see and not because the character liked her better. So they had sex! But then he also had sex with Aerith because she was a prostitute! What a couple of hot takes, to say that "prostitutes can't love" or "sex is the end all". Was Cloud a necrophile? I mean even if I don't think so I could be wrong! So maybe according to KH Cloud's light is actually Zack! Tifa and Aerith were actually into eachother! etc. Honestly there are so many possible interpretations that if Sephiroth/Cloud became Remake endgame I wouldn't even be surprised. And I mean this in the best way possible. I love stories that leave room for interpretation.

True. Not sure if they will argue about it forever - maybe the Remake will bring some closure to it and with my track record it's not gonna be Clerith lol. Having said this, so far I enjoy knowing that there's a lot more to discuss with the few sane people in the room in terms of dynamics, types of feelings, and... you know, in real life we don't really have "endgames" because types of love can't be measured or compared objectively. I like works that make us think about it all rather than give answers.

I've wondered if the remake is going to give us more solid answers to some things. I recall one of the devs (Nojima maybe) saying they were worried that the remake was going to upset people because they'd realize their interpretations of the OG weren't correct. Whatever happens, it'll be an interesting ride, that's for sure. I look forward to whatever nonsense shippers come up with to discredit the other girl.

AYRT - Cloud aroace canon. No, I'm kidding. But maybe I am not? Who knows.

In my experience creators (even more so Japanese ones) love to give closure to love triangles. But I hate when they do that when the ship wars are too strong because it's like the other ship is the "loser" and gets "discredited" and it's like, bye bye happiness, bye bye fanworks, bye bye sane discussions, etc. Feels bad to feel kicked out of a fandom for something you enjoyed y'know? (Been there, seen that. Quite a few times actually. And it's Japan so it's usually the 'wifey' girl that gets the guy. ie the one I don't like.)

Honestly at this point I feel like they will go all the way with the Highwind stuff. It does make me sad though, because I was very excited for the Remake but then they changed stuff and the more I see the less passionate and the more "childhood, ruined" I feel about it. So I don't even get involved in the fandom aside from the occasional reblog on art, as much as I liked it way back, because I don't want to deal with a possible aftermath. And I really don't want to have my love (for the OG at least) be ruined.

I feel like we're going to get a solid cloti/zerith ending tbh, my biggest question is if Aerith and Zack will live or if their "reunion" will be in the lifestream. And while I can't deny I'd be happy about the cloti, I dread how even more unbearable my fandom will get and what changes the story will make to get us there.

AYRT - Probably, yes. It's probably also weird that I loved Zack/Aerith but at this point so much has changed that I feel a bit *shrug* about the entire "canon romance" aspect.

I've always liked zerith, though it was never otp status. But I admit that him showing up at her church and practicing what he was going to say to her kinda got me in my feelings about them. They're really cute.

Hopefully the romance aspect stays secondary to the main story and we can all find other things to enjoy if the ships don't play out the way we want them to.

DA
I JUST hope there will be no canon romance. Mostly because it's completely unneeded and also because I hate romances in Final Fantasy games. They're almost always really, really bad.

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(Anonymous) - 2022-12-08 22:13 (UTC) - Expand

+100

This ^^

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