[ SECRET POST #5858 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5858 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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02. [repeat]



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04.
[Zootopia]



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07.
[Path to Nowhere]



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08.
[Manic Street Preachers]
















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 09 secrets from Secret Submission Post #838.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

05. https://i.imgur.com/OGkvfSW.png

[(Anonymous)]

Can someone lay out for me how Maskerade is fatphobic? I don't remember that, but haven't read it in years.

[(Anonymous)]

Agnes experiences fatphobia quite a bit- it's the reason she's not the star of the show when she clearly should be. I really don't experience the book itself as fatphobic. However I do not experience fatphobia so... maybe more thoughts?

[(Anonymous)]

I agree that characters in the book are fatphobic! Very much so. But I wouldn't say that means *the book* has problems with fatphobic - so that's what's tripping me up.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt - I agree. Some of the characters are fatphobic, and it's unfair what happens to Agnes re: having the talent to be the star, but getting passed over in favor of the slender, prettier girl... but that's kind of the book's point? It's not portrayed as a good thing by any means. But maybe I'm biased because I think Agnes is a fantastic character, and enjoyed Maskerade.

[(Anonymous)]

It's been a long time so my memory may be off, but wasn't part of the reason Christine got picked also because her father had contributed a ton of money to the opera house?

[(Anonymous)]

IIRC, that's the reason she gets brought into the opera in the first place (or, to be precise, I think her father had loaned a lot of money to the guy who bought the opera house, but same difference). But the reason she gets picked as the new primadonna at the end is because she's pretty and thin and has Star Power.

[(Anonymous)]

I absolutely do experience fatphobia, and while I don't think the book was fatphobic at all, it was still an uncomfortable read for that reason. Though it was a great step up compared to a lot of books with fat characters at the time, I have to say.

So I'm wondering if the secret poster is mixing up "I read this and feel bad about fatphobia, which is something I experience" with the book being fatphobic?

[tabaqui]

The cute, slim girl is the star (it's a kind of take on Phantom of the Opera), and Agnes is not cute or slim, just has a wonderful singing voice.

I don't think Sir Pterry is fat-phobic; he certainly never uses it as a thing that makes his characters bad, or boring, or whatever. Some people are just fat, and some people react badly and others (like Vimes) falls in love (with Lady Sybil, not with Agnes).
*shrug*

[(Anonymous)]

"The cute, slim girl is the star (it's a kind of take on Phantom of the Opera), and Agnes is not cute or slim, just has a wonderful singing voice."

And it's not like that isn't true to life, either? Like, I used to do theater, and it was just a fact that you were way more likely to get cast in a leading role if you were attractive.

[tabaqui]

Yup. Sad but true.

[(Anonymous)]

Considering he has multiple heroic or generally good and intelligent fat characters (Sybil, Jackrum, Ridcully ... most of the wizards, actually) I don't think you're really right, there.

Having fat characters who are less than perfect isn't fatphobia. And most of those who are notable for being fat and greedy/lazy aren't greedy/lazy because they're fat, they're fat because they're greedy/lazy which is ... an actual thing that happens. To real people. In real life.

Colon being a clear example.

[(Anonymous)]

I wouldn't describe most of the wizards as being either heroic or intelligent

(you're totally right, though)

[(Anonymous)]

I'd say that when the character with all the interesting plot and the deep emotional life is the one with the Thing, Thing-phobic is not the author's problem. They may want to *discuss* Thing-phobia, but that is a really different story.

[(Anonymous)]

I hate them because I don't think they're funny and everyone else does. Trying to be clever all the time isn't the same thing as being funny.

[(Anonymous)]

Can you explain the difference between “clever” and “funny”?

[(Anonymous)]

Funny is something that makes you laugh or at least smile. Clever is something that makes you think "Ah, I see what you did there." Something can be both clever and funny, but Pratchett's writing I find to be consistent cleverness that's clearly going for also funny and never once hitting the mark.

I mean, everyone who does think it's funny is as valid as me because different people find different things laugh-inducing. It's just a universal opinion in my circles that Terry Pratchett is hilarious, so I get to feeling left out and irritated.

[(Anonymous)]

I wouldn't say I hate them but there are definitely things about them that bother me in a BIG way that makes the widespread adoration really grating.

1. Charitably, in a British context everything about the wizards is meant to be anti-upper-class-twits, but with Salt of the Earth Vimes and Granny Weatherwax being such author's darlings, and the Wizard/Witch divide being what it is, it sure comes off as deeply-baked anti-intellectualism a LOT of the time.

2. The racism in Interesting Times almost put me off the whole series for good, holy shit.

3. Granny Weatherwax is so cool for being a bully!!!!!!

4. I can't dock him points when he's really not trying to be subtle, but it does get wearying after a bit.

[(Anonymous)]

In Maskerade Agnes experiences fatphobia and the whole point is that it's bitterly unfair.

How on earth does that make the book itself fatphobic?

[(Anonymous)]

Depiction = endorsement is the way all the cool kids are processing their media now.

[(Anonymous)]

Oi. That's just depressing.