[ SECRET POST #5870 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5870 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 21 secrets from Secret Submission Post #840.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

02. https://i.imgur.com/4ain9XQ.png

[(Anonymous)]

I hate antis as much as the next person, but I think you're reaching, Op.

Not all fandoms are obsessed over ships. Some are full of fucking nerds over minutiae details. Or complaining that the newest installment ruined the franchise forever and that the last work was definitely better.

[(Anonymous)]

Sort of agree here, sort of don't.

The thing is that there absolutely *is* a very distinct and very large fandom community that is built around fanfiction and other kinds of transformative work, and for that fandom community, shipping is absolutely foundational to everything that's going on. And we all of us here are part of that fandom community. And it's both common and reasonable to refer to that fandom community as "fandom", even though it's really only a part of a much larger whole. So, I think OP's point is really pretty reasonable if they're using the word "fandom" in that way.

But at the same time, you're absolutely correct, there's all kinds of other parts of fandom that have nothing to do with shipping. And honestly the Star Trek fandom stuff is kind of a fascinating case in point there, because where Star Trek fandom stuff started out in the first place, the ground that it sprang out of, was science fiction fandom. A whole lot of the very early ST fans and fandom organizers were already science fiction BNFs (for example Bjo Trimble and Juanita Coulson). And science fiction fandom had absolutely nothing at all to do with shipping or with fanfic in the modern sense. Shipping was something that effectively developed in Star Trek and other media fandoms in the 70s, but it came out of a fandom culture that already existed.

[(Anonymous)]

The large fandoms I've been in / am aware of had both kinds, some people involving themselves in both ways, some in only one or the other (with those who were only in the "minutiae" camp generally considering themselves superior to those weirdos who write shippy fic).

[(Anonymous)]

This is a bad argument. Antis suck and I'm a diehard shipper, but firstly, shipping is not the singular be all and end all of fandom, and secondly, it isn't shipping in and of itself that antis object to. Like, you do realize that most antis have ships too, right?

[philstar22]

It really depends on the fandom. Even among the early fandoms. Yes, Star Trek had lots of shipping from the beginning. But the Tolkien fandom was less about shipping for a long time and still has everything else along with the shipping.

[(Anonymous)]

I think this was also true of early Sherlock Holmes fandom and early (i.e., 1930s-40s) comics fandom . Those fandoms eventually had tons of shipping, but that's not what they were built on.

[(Anonymous)]

It's the misogyny. Men tend to consume cannon: do models, learn all the specs, etc. Women tend to transform canon, most notably exploring the world and relationships through fanfiction.

[(Anonymous)]

Like the great thinker once said: "There's no cure for being a cunt". They can't help themselves. ;-)

[(Anonymous)]

Star Trek fanfic very much did exist before shipping.

Like I understand where you're coming from but Star Trek fanfic very much did exist before shipping.

[(Anonymous)]

This is true but I do want to point out that, while Star Trek fanfic did exist before shipping, Star Trek fanfic did *not* exist before being horny for Mr. Spock

And I think that should count for something here

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, I will grant you that large swaths of modern global culture are built on being horny for Mr. Spock. That's just true.

[(Anonymous)]

A reminder: the Greeks debated who topped between Patrochlus and Achilles on government time.

[(Anonymous)]

Ok sure, "shipping" in abstract existed.

I'm just pushing back against a certain narrative I'm seeing a lot lately that puts things that happened during the Star Trek fandom boom of the 70s as if they were the beginning of fandom. Star Trek gen fic was all over zines in the original run, shipping was later.

[(Anonymous)]

It's always been my impression that Kirk/Spock got going SUPER early in Trek fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

It's entirely likely that it was being spoken about in private among friends as far back as '67, but the first documented account of it being discussed at cons or in zines or fanclubs or newsletters was no earlier than '73 or '74. It just took off really hard and really fast once it got going. (Possibly there was some fanclub discussion or fic being passed around in single copies even a year or two before that.)

A lot of people's memories of early Star Trek fandom are a bit off because it didn't actually explode in the cultural zeitgeist like we think of until after the original run, when in started being in continuous reruns in a lot of places in the early 70s. It did OK in '67-70, and got a solid following among college students, SF fans, and the counterculture, and that is absolutely when the infrastructure of the fandom was established, but in that early period most of the shippy fic that there was, was Spock/OC or Sarek/Amanda, and the vast majority was gen or non-shippy meta and art.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree to some extent. It reminds me how the internet was built by porn but once it wants to get taken seriously it'll downplay that. We see it over and over on various sites, Craigslist now OnlyFans, and in fan culture.

Yeah nah shut your face

[raspberryrain]

People can be fans of a property in different ways. Shipping is one way of engaging with characters, but since it often involves reinterpreting characters heavily, other kinds of fans have often seen it as silly, engaging with only the surface aspects of a character in a work. Look at the complaints about "media fans" 40+ years ago.

Re: Yeah nah shut your face

[(Anonymous)]

Sure they can, but if they're going to send death threats and emotional abuse because they don't like what other people are doing, they can die mad about it and gtfo.