[ SECRET POST #5873 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5873 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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04.
[Demons Roots]


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05. [WARNING for discussion of antisemitism]




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06. [WARNING for discussion of transphobia (possibly, just to be safe)]




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07. [WARNING for discussion of transphobia]























Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #840.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

God, I was about to come in and say this. As a Jew I find these assumptions made by the fans way more offensive than the actual characters.

[(Anonymous)]

Nobody's saying that Jewish people are like that. They're saying that JKR, like many other writers, draws on a well of anti-Semetic stereotypes that have been used to demonise actual Jewish people.

[(Anonymous)]

how so? what do you mean?

[(Anonymous)]

r/AsABlackMan

[(Anonymous)]

It's more likely that AYRT is just naive rather than that they're lying.

[(Anonymous)]

They're not "assumptions made by fans" if you mean that people are assuming that Jewish people share those traits. Those are very well known, long documented antisemitic beliefs and portrayals of Jews that were established long before Rowling was born, much less famous enough to have fans.

Weird how you don't know that, as a Jew.

[(Anonymous)]

Which is it then? Are Goblins meant to be offensive representations of Jews because Jews in fact share stereotypical traits with Goblins? If we don't and that's all lies, than comparing Jewish people to Goblins and assigning antisemitism to that feels more like an antisemitic act of ascribing those stereotypes to Jewish people just to be offended on our behalf. Am I an HP Goblin to you, who deserves better representation? Or can we accept a race of fantasy characters as not having a real-life analog?

[(Anonymous)]

Well, as long as *we* know it's not true, guess it's alright! Never mind that a heck of a lot of people out there do believe it. And we certainly shouldn't be concerned that a mega-popular children book series is peddling these stereotypes, nor questioning just a little bit whether or not the very controversial author of said series just *might* be one of those aforementioned people who believe this shit. No, it's fine, we know it's not true.

...are you serious?

[(Anonymous)]

Do you think black people actually resemble apes? No? Then why is it a repeated racist caricature to associate them with chimpanzees and shit like that?

[(Anonymous)]

This comment by another anon covered it pretty well:

https://fandomsecrets.dreamwidth.org/2754091.html?thread=1099834923#cmt1099834923

Racial stereotypes don't have to be true in order to be a racial stereotype. In folklore, goblins aren't money-obsessed, hook-nosed creatures who control the banking system. So no, Jewish people aren't like the goblins of folklore. But Rowling has written about creatures with hook noses, who are obsessed with money and who control the banking system... and that's a very obvious antisemitic stereotype right there, one that existed long before her books. People recognize that antisemitic stereotype because again, it's very well known, and has been around for a long time. They're quite rightly suspicious that Rowling has chosen to write about a race that sounds like a Jewish stereotype.

You're either confused and ignorant, or trolling, but if it's the former it's to such a degree that it sounds like the latter. The people who see antisemitic aspects of Rowling's goblins aren't wrong. They're there.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, yeah, you are not like other jews.

I didn't find them offensive when I was reading the books, but I was like 14 and naive. Also I had good enough childhood not to be subjected to antisemitism until later in life. It doesn't mean antisemitism isn't real

[(Anonymous)]

The connection between goblins and antisemitism wasn't mainstream knowledge when the books were new. It was so non-mainstream that you could be Jewish and never have heard of it, or be an author writing about goblins using tropes associated with goblins and never have heard of it. It wasn't because you were 14 and naive that you didn't notice, it was because you had a normal (for the time) amount of education on the subject.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, I didn't know better (but I actually learned somehow in the later years). Frankly, I don't think that goblins alone have been that bad. But the more you dig, the more you can see that she never bothered to research, she always used stereotypes. My country features in HP in passing. And yup, it's bad too. I was amused at that time when I read it. But with years I recognized that probably I should respect myself and not congratulate people who don't respect my culture.

[(Anonymous)]

It wasn't so much an issue of there being a connection with goblins and Jews, though. It was a connection between Jews and antisemitic propaganda about Jews being evil people with hook noses who had a lot of money and used it to control the banking system and other business and THAT propaganda was already common knowledge long before Rowling wrote her books because it came up in WWII propaganda from the Nazis.

It's possible that if you're young and not very well versed in history, you could be Jewish and not know of that type of antisemitic portrayal. But I wouldn't call it non-mainstream for the general population.

[(Anonymous)]

Of course antisemitism is real. I just don't see the connection between Jews and HP goblins because the stereotype of money-obsessed hook nosed Jewish fiends is a false one. This is why I've never drawn a comparison between the two and I find it offensive that others do. Jews aren't goblins, Jesus.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh. You... don't understand how racial stereotyping works. Okay.

A racial stereotype doesn't need to be true, or true of all members of a specific race, to exist, to be obvious as a racial stereotype of the group being stereotyped, or to be harmful, dangerous or offensive to the group that's being stereotyped. If that were the case, there would have been historically a lot less violence against oppressed groups because all the people would have said, gee. Clearly my neighbors aren't going to steal my money and my children for their dark rituals. Put away the torches, guys, we don't need to burn their houses down today!

So now you know! Tell your friends!

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I still don't see why I should identify with goblins.

[(Anonymous)]

Nobody is asking you to identify with goblins. People are asking you to accept that an extremely well-established pattern of traits and stereotypes about Jewish people exists in the minds of bigots, and that it is bad when a fictional book replicates those traits and stereotypes in its fantasy worldbuilding.

[(Anonymous)]

You don't need to

Nazis and white supremacists, however, DO identify you with the HP goblins!

Why do you think Jewish space lasers was a thing? Why do you think New World Order and deep state bullshit involves Soros being an evil world-controlling Jew?

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt - This. I'm baffled at the idea that someone is mad because they think other people are calling for them to identify with goblins. It's such a bad take that I'm undecided whether someone really is that ignorant, or they're trolling.

The whole "Jews are awful people who control the world with money and are behind everything" conspiracy theory has been around for ages. It's an antique bigotry that's still with us today, and it's never truly gone away. Do people not know about WWII and Nazis? How about the Holocaust? Do they not notice how white supremacy and Nazis are once again front and center of the Batshit Crazy Asshole movement and have been for some years now?

"I'm Jewish and Jewish people aren't really like that so it's not antisemitism"... SMH. Just... what.