[ SECRET POST #876 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #876 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 21 pages, 518 secrets from Secret Submission Post #126.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[dana-kujan.livejournal.com]

I'm assuming by "shipping" you mean "fantasizing about" because they're already in their own relationship-- it's not of your making. So, please, stop. Pray to stop, if you must. But stop. We glbt folks are not here for your amusement, to be your fetish, or to get you off.

Oh, and by the way, you and I must follow different Christs. Mine was all about Love. And yours?

[(Anonymous)]

That last line in your post makes you look like an idiot.

It's like saying that anyone who thinks murder is a sin must worship an evil God. No, I'm not comparing homosexuality to murder, just saying that believing something is a sin doesn't mean that you're mean or anything.

[mikutsuki.livejournal.com]

LOL I think you missed the point.

[(Anonymous)]

one of you looks like an idiot. you.

[(Anonymous)]

uh oh dude, you just made yourself look like the biggest idiot I almost choked on my drink lol

[xenafox.livejournal.com]

That whooshed right over your head, didn't it O_O

[hey-feygele.livejournal.com]

Why do you feel it makes her look like an idiot? I thought it was a valid question. I and many others interpret Christ's message to be about love; what is it about your interpretation that's so very different? Specifically, what leads you to believe the relationship between Ellen and her wife is inherently sinful?

[fencer-x.livejournal.com]

Well if you interpret Leviticus 20:13 (and 18:22) as still applicable in today's environment:

"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

...yeah I'm pretty sure that says it's something of a sin. Granted, in Christianity, you don't go to hell for sinning provided you've accepted Christ as your savior, but that'd be the part where the OP got the idea that homosexuality was a sin.

(note: I'm only playing Devil's advocate here; I'm a Christian who believes that this--along with other passages in Leviticus that try to tell me I'm a sinner for liking oyster soup--is dated and more than a little tainted with the feelings of the times)

[hey-feygele.livejournal.com]

Oh, Leviticus. Wacky old Leviticus, full of animal sacrifice and really terrible hygiene advice. It's so easy to just sort of roll one's eyes and discount the whole book because so much of it, like the prohibitions against shellfish and cotton-polyester blends, seems so harmless and outdated.

But then some of it, like chapter 20, that's some really heavy stuff: abominable sexual transgressions and putting people to death and whatnot. I can see how somebody with no interest whatsoever in the New Testament might read that and decide that yes, it is their holy duty to punish people for sins such as these. What I cannot see is how somebody could also read something like the beginning of chapter 8 of John -- one of the best damn criticisms that exists of following things like Leviticus to the letter, imho -- and still think themselves not only fit but actually bound to judge other people for committing the terribly grievous sin of loving each other, all the while referring to themselves as Christian.

[dana-kujan.livejournal.com]

Actually, if I remember correctly, Leviticus 18:1 begins with God "saying unto Moses" in so many words, "Dude, when you get to Egypt and Canaan, don't carry on like they do because they are some messed up folks." Then He proceeds to tell Moses what the Canaanites do and what Moses's group should not do. Apparently, the Canaanites would screw anything, including family and animals. In my opinion, if more Christians knew their history or would actually, you know, read the Bible, they'd see that Leviticus does not apply to modern man.

Unless children in their neighborhoods are still being sacrificed to Molech.

[bleed-peroxide.livejournal.com]

You completely missed her point.

[(Anonymous)]

pwnd.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Do you think that possibly this is the kind of thing that could make the OP (or people like him/her) become less hateful toward homosexuals, and more accepting, or eventually get past judging it altogether?

/devil's advocate only (not the OP - I don't identify as religious or anti-gay)

[dana-kujan.livejournal.com]

You mean having (sexual) fantasies will make them more accepting of "teh gay"? I would have to say, no. I'm not saying that it could never happen, but I'm doubtful.

Straight men watch girl-on-girl porn all the time. One of the biggest homophobes I've ever met really enjoyed that type of porn.

I once heard a slash fan say, "I don't care about gay rights. I care about slash." She had been in slash fandom for about 15 years at that point, so the odds of her changing her views would be slim.

And did you see the spate of secrets from slash fans who voted for Prop 8?

I could go on... Maybe I've had some bad experiences or I'm just getting cynical in my old age, but your question was general so, yes, I'm generalizing.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

It's a fair answer. As I said, just playing devil's advocate.

And I know the hypocritical attitudes do exist. I agreed with the initial annoyance that GLBT people are being made to feel like performers with this secret. I'm just curious if there's any redeeming value at all in this secret.

[dana-kujan.livejournal.com]

Oh, I understand that you were just playing devil's advocate, and I've enjoyed engaging with you in this discussion. In fact, I was still thinking about it in the shower this morning.

I forgot to mention self-identifying heterosexuals like Ted Haggard and (probably) Larry Craig who have gone beyond fantasy to engage in homosexual acts and yet continue to dedicate their lives to marginalizing and demonizing glbt people. (I think this goes beyond being closeted.)

On the other hand, I failed to mention the secrets posted here that have declared things like "slash fandom helped me see gay people more as human beings" and "I never knew any gblt people until I got into fandom; thanks, fandom!"

So, maybe there is some redeeming value in that secret after all, even if it's just a venue for more discussion.