fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #876 ]

⌈ Secret Post #876 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 21 pages, 518 secrets from Secret Submission Post #126.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Yep, controversial shameful secrets can be posted here. Yep, commenters can reply to those secrets voicing dissent or hurt feelings about them. This isn't a safe space. There are safe spaces for Christians who are struggling over the ridiculousness of the far-right position on homosexuality, but this isn't one of them. I'd suggest looking around the Christian blogosphere, especially the left-wing Christian blogosphere, if you want such a safe space to express your feelings and beliefs anonymously or and talk about them with other Christians.

But here, you just get bitchy queers like me who think 'love the sinner, hate the sin' is nonsensical. Like I said earlier, it would be like hating everything a left-handed person did with their left hand but claiming you don't hate them, just...everything they do with their life. You think the Ellen/Portia relationship is cute but you hate it because it's sinful? If you've ever been in a loving relationship you'll know how central and integral that relationship can be to someone's life. You're saying that the core of these two women's lives is a sin that your god is going to send them to hell for, but you claim you don't hate them? It's a nonsense.

Your heart, your life, is telling you something here: namely that love is cute, whoever's doing it to whoever. Idk, if I was in your situation I'd go pray about it and ask your god whether it was right for a woman to be with another woman. Talking to people, Christian or not, fannish or not, isn't going to get you any further here.

it's not the love that's the problem really. it's the sex as someone said earlier. which i understand is still a confusing way to believe. but of course, love in itself is complicated and i am obviously confused hence the secret in the first place.

but i think as soon as i said i am a christian everyone immediately thought i was with westboro baptist church and wear a t-shirt that says 'god hates fags'

i don't. not all christians are loud and forceful with their beliefs. i cannot force you to love god. i don't try to force people to. i simply say what i believe and how i feel about the subject and that it could be the same for them if they are interested.

what i mean by dislike the sin not the sinner because i do not hate that person. same way i do not hate smokers. i am very grossed out by them when they are smoking and don't understand why they choose to do such a thing but when we are just talking or hanging out, my mind is not constantly thinking 'oh how gross they smoke.' i actually forget about their habit. which obviously smoking and homosexuality aren't the same thing but that's the best way i have to explain it.

Smoking causes lung cancer (and makes you smell bad).

Lesbian sex causes... erm...

Well...

Uhm...

Crying Baby Jesus?

Seriously, what's the problem with sex? Assuming we're talking consenting adults who use protection when needed, obviously.

which obviously smoking and homosexuality aren't the same thing but that's the best way i have to explain it.

There's two key differences; firstly that f/f sex or m/m sex isn't any more or less gross than m/f sex, and secondly that a smoker can quit smoking, but Ellen and Portia can't quit being attracted to other women. Either they have a loving, sexual relationship with each other, or they don't have one at all. If you think telling someone they ought to never have loving relationships isn't hateful...well, how would you deal with being on the other end of that one? If someone was telling you that their religion said that you shouldn't ever have a relationship with anyone because of your orientation?

And nope, I didn't think you were a god hates fags sort of Christian. But here's the thing: you don't have to be a god hates fags sort of Christian to be a homophobe, or to be in favour of denying legal rights to lesbian and gay couples. There's a spectrum of hate and you are on it. You're not the worst, but you're buying into a philosophy of discrimination. If you've thought about the consequences that your beliefs have for Ellen and Portia and you're still comfortable in them, fine, but if you look at it from their point of view, there's no way that saying it was sinful for Ellen and Portia to fall in love and get married is anything but hateful towards them.

which obviously smoking and homosexuality aren't the same thing but that's the best way i have to explain it.

that wasn't my explination of why it is wrong or whatever. i was trying to explain my view and how i do not dislike the person just the sin.

I'm aware. I was explaining why I think it's a flawed reason for disliking something. It's clear you want to keep believing that some people are allowed to love and some people aren't, and no one can stop you, but if you also want to be able to justify it to people who don't share that belief, you're going to have to come up with a better way than that, because 'disliking the sin' doesn't work. It's a logic fail. It's patently discriminatory, because you're not judging heterosexual sex in the same way, and sex is just sex whoever's doing it.

The rhetoric of 'love the sinner, hate the sin' is one that only works to justify that 'dislike' from within, basically - no one outside your group is ever going to be convinced by it. It's something someone came up with to justify an opinion they'd already decided on. And us outside that group have heard it a few times before, and we've unravelled its lack of logic, and we're tired of it. It needs more thought, more prayer, and more love, to come up with a way past that. If you don't want to be bothered, if you want to stick with 'disliking the sin', then fine, but as you can see that justification for discrimination isn't working any more.

[ SECRET POST #876 ]

Re: OP here.

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