fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #882 ]

[ SECRET POST #882 ]

⌈ Secret Post #882 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

[Peanuts]

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102.

[Kamen Rider Den-O]

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103.

[Avatar]

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104. [repeat]

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105.

[Twilight/CastleVania]

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106.

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107.

[Vampire Knight, Ouran High School Host Club]

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108.

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109.

[T-mobile NBA commercials; Dwane Wade, Charles Barkley, Dwight Howard]

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110.

[Angela Aki]

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111.

[Blackadder Goes Forth, Sharpe]

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112.

[Skins]

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113.

[Gossip Girl]

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114.

[Yet Another Fantasy Gamer Comic]

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115.

[About a Boy]

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116.

[Ghost Hunt]

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117.

[Repo]

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118.

[Elite Beat Agents]

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119.

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120.

[Phantom of the Opera]

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121.

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122.

[Brian "Head" Welch - Korn]

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123.

[Storm Hawks]

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124. [repeat]

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125.

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126.

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127.

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128.

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129.

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130.

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131.

[Kavinsky/SebastiAn]

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132.

[Ronin Warriors]

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133.

[Fringe]

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134.

[Tudors]

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135.

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136.

[Kevin Barnes, Mika Penniman]

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137.

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138.

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139.

[Avatar]

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140.

[Green Lantern]

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141.

[Hollyoaks]

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142.

[Amy Winehouse/Simon Amstell]

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143.

[Charles in Charge, Eureka]

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144.

[Harriet the Spy]

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145.

[Star Trek/Dr Who]

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146.

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147.

[Russell Brand, Stephen Fry]

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148.

[iCarly]

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149.

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150.

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151.

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152.

[Jeeves and Wooster]

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153.

[The Thick of It]

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154.

[The Cornered Mouse Dreams of Cheese / The Carp on the Chopping Block Jumps Twice]

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155.

[Hana Yori Dango]

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156.

[American Idol / Idolatry]

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157.

[As the World Turns]

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158.

[Charlie Bartlett]

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159.

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160.

[Legend of the Seeker]

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161.

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162.

[Springwatch]

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163.

[Ted Allen]

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164.

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165.

[Animorphs]

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166.

[Avatar]

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167.

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168.

[Ace of Cakes]

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169. [SPOILERS for Mentalist]

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170.

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171.

[The Adventures of Brisco County Jr.]

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172.

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173.

[BtVS]

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174.

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175. [Star Trek: Hidden Frontier/Helena Chronicles, Odyssey; possible spoilers]

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176.

[LOST]

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177.

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178.

[Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei/No Longer Human]

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179.

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180.

[When The Boat Comes In]

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181.

[Red Dwarf]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #126.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 - doing it wrong ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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So...much...fail.

I'm tempted to call troll. 'Specially with the end there.

Oh, please, get over yourself and realize that anon is right. Asia doesn't exist in Avatar. They make look Asian, their cultures may be inspired by Asian cultures that we have here but they aren't Asian. Just as the Doctor in Doctor Who may look English, speak English and dress in a Western style but he isn't English because there isn't an England on his world.

The world of Avatar is an alien world. Hence, the crazy hybrid animals. (Save for the bear.) It's not Earth. Please, understand this.

So, wait, despite the fact that the clothes, buildings, weapons, fighting styles, spiritualities, food and practically everything else in Avatar is Asian based, they can't be Asian?

I see it more as an alternate universe Asia, not some Alien world.

Just a small FYI, a lot of the things in Avatar are also based on Indian culture as well. Not all of it is Chinese/Japanese.

The person above didn't specify what kind of Asian by saying Chinese and/or Japanese. They simply said "Asian." As India is a part of Asia, I don't see how your response is relevant. It kind of doesn't fit.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, but I didn't want to say it in case I missed some key part of the thread or something.

If they didn't mean Chinese/Japanese then there wouldn't be a complaint about Zuko being played by an Indian actor.

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(Anonymous) - 2009-06-06 02:32 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2009-06-06 09:24 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2009-06-07 00:30 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2009-06-06 04:47 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2009-06-06 19:29 (UTC) - Expand

So, I take it you haven't seen the map of the Avatar world (http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/avatar/images/4/49/Opening_Avatar_World_Map.png) even though they show it in seemingly every other episode. There is no Asia in that world.

So, no, they can't be Asian. They were inspired by Asian cultures but they aren't actually Asian. I can't go to real life Asia and find the Fire Tribe or myths of the Fire Tribe because it doesn't exist in this world. They aren't part of this world. Therefore; again, they are not Asian.

Now don't get me wrong. That doesn't let the creators of the new movie off the hook with the ability to throw anything in the plot. The past creators of the show have created a fantasy world where there are rules on how the buildings should look, how the language should be written, how the fighting styles should be done. Sort of like the way Tolkien set up his Middle Earth with this race over here with their culture and that race other there with their culture. (Oh, by the way, using your logical the Elves are actually Finnish-Welsh since Tolkien set up their language to mimic that tongue.)

The movie creators have to follow these rules, (though I am sure there is a bit of wiggle room), in order to have a true Avatar world as set up by the original creators.

But again, Avatar is a fantasy world inspired by Asian cultures and not an Asian world in itself.

Uhh, knee jerk reaction much?

I'm pretty sure I didn't say any of that in my post. So, don't be taking out your frustrations on me. kthnx

You called the above person a troll for saying that the people of Avatar weren't Asians because Asia didn't exist in that world.

You even said there was so much fail in that anon post. So, yes, you did say that. Don't try to backtrack. It's sad.

Why are you so adamant to cling to your belief that the characters are not Asian? That even though it's allowable for their food/language/culture/martial art styles/art/clothing/etc. can be based on Asian/Inuit ones, their ethnicities can't?

I'm not backtracking. By calling that person a troll I was stating that I really don't take anyone who says the above statements seriously anymore. Not with all the essays, rants, examples, comparisons, and pictures provided by other people in support of the Avatar character's ethnicity.

But yeah, I'm just going to copy/paste because I don't feel like writing this all out again.

I'm a little bit sick of this argument as it has been refuted and rebuffed by MANY people who can probably say this more articulately, but in short:

Aang ain't white.

The character's cultures are based off those of Asian and Inuit cultures. Their ethnicities are also based off those of Asian and Inuit ones. It's not a logical argument to say that their physical make-up is not that of an Asian/Inuit person because that's what they are! It's like, trying to say they aren't human beings because they exist in a ~*fantasy*~ world. Well, even though they are not from Earth, they are still human beings who happen to closely resemble those with Asian/Inuit ethnicity.

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mekkio.livejournal.com - 2009-06-06 02:02 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2009-06-06 19:01 (UTC) - Expand

Right. Technically the doctor isn't English and neither are the people in LOTR and nor is Avatar Asian in the sense of sharing the history of Asia in our world.

But it's still widely considered fundamental that the doctor be cast with an English guy, and the LOTR movies looked for white people, preferably with British accents. The real world cultures inspiring those universes were acknowledged as important to the world in ways that the real world cultures inspiring Avatar were not equally important.

Oh, I have no problem with that. Because the characters are inspired by Asian cultures it would make sense for them to be played by Asian actors just like you said the Elves of LOTR should be played by actors of a British/Northern European background since that is the like setting of the books.

However, to call the people of Avatar Asian and be so adamant that people think of them as Asian is where I draw the line. Again, it would be like calling the Elves Finnish-Welsh. But they aren't because those countries don't exist in LOTR.

Exactly. Which means they should all be played by white people.

Especially the brown ones.

And I'm tempted not to. Anon's comments above (at least the first half) are entirely accurate. Yes, Avatar-verse is based on Asian (and Inuit, as mentioned above) cultures. But strictly speaking, there is no asian ethnicity in the show because there is no Asia. How is that not a logical argument?

On the second bit, there's a lot of us in the fandom who are genuinely angry at the race!fail, but there are also people who are only interested in the actors retaining the aesthetics of the show art. I'm not condoning anon's assumption that those fans are strictly asian, but they DO exist and they ARE annoying because they take away from the real discussion that should be going on.

I'm a little bit sick of this argument as it has been refuted and rebuffed by MANY people who can probably say this more articulately, but in short:

Aang ain't white.

The character's cultures are based off those of Asian and Inuit cultures. Their ethnicities are also based off those of Asian and Inuit ones. It's not a logical argument to say that their physical make-up is not that of an Asian/Inuit person because that's what they are! It's like, trying to say they aren't human beings because they exist in a ~*fantasy*~ world. Well, even though they are not from Earth, they are still human beings who happen to closely resemble those with Asian/Inuit ethnicity.

I don't disregard your claim that there are those types of fans, as human nature will inevitably provide said examples, but I haven't run across them yet and the majority over at [Bad username or site: aang_ain't_white @ livejournal.com] and

racebending as the other non-fan people upset over the movie are not one of them.

THIS

How hard is this to understand?

THISSSS.
Totally saved my day buddy.

H'okay, so how come when you translate that to a live action movie Paramount believes the kid automatically has to be white? Aang is not from this world or reality, but when you want to portray him using a real human being, why does white have to be the default? The casting directors have made it pretty clear that they were looking for caucasian actors for all four main roles from the get go.

Yup, it's totally cool to ~~steal~~ borrow several elements of various Asian cultures, and then leave the people who INVENTED those traditions/clothes/architecture/food/languages/weapons/etc. the hell out of it.

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snowdevil-crow.livejournal.com - 2009-06-06 17:06 (UTC) - Expand

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eleraix.livejournal.com - 2009-06-07 05:16 (UTC) - Expand

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eleraix.livejournal.com - 2009-06-07 05:17 (UTC) - Expand

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snowdevil-crow.livejournal.com - 2009-06-07 18:57 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2009-06-06 19:24 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2009-06-06 19:26 (UTC) - Expand

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eleraix.livejournal.com - 2009-06-07 05:37 (UTC) - Expand

I'm sorry, I neglected to exclude the "Aang is white" portion from my blanket assertion that anon's comments were accurate. If Aang can't be asian by the argument mentioned, he can't be white either. It's like, trying to say they aren't human beings because they exist in a ~*fantasy*~ world. Again, I think this is a valid argument. The universe is not Earth, it runs on some fundamentally different principles, and you could argue that the characters aren't human. But that's sort of a moot point.

The problem with the casting, in my mind, is not that the characters don't resemble the ethnicity of their cartoon counterparts, but WHY they don't. The film makers chose white leads to be "safe". Because they had this bizarre notion that fans would not come to see the film if the heroes were played by asian actors. As a caucasian woman, I say that's BS; I'm no more likely to watch the film because Whitey McWhitebread got cast, and I don't think anyone else is, either. I think the filmmakers made a huge mistake and they'll pay for it.

But at the same time, I think the show and the fandom encompasses more than just this argument, and that's getting overshadowed now by all the race!fail discourse. The show itself was respectful in its portrayals of the cultures and didn't stereotype or marginalize them. Why can't we focus on that, instead of going on about the movie? I mean, it's Hollywood. Hollywood fucks everything up.

If Aang can't be asian by the argument mentioned, he can't be white either.

I think you mean he can't be Caucasian. Because he can certainly be white. White is really just a skin colour, not a race.

As far as I understand it...?

lol I think we agree then? I don;t know, I know that Avatar isn't Earth but it's the defaulting to white that Hollywood does and Western society in general that I find offensive. So, when people claim, "Aang isn't Asian either." I guess I don't really see what they are trying to say? Yeah, he isn't technically Asian as in he's from Tibet or something, but his culture/ethnicity is based off Tibet and I feel like Hollywood failed when they didn't cast someone to portray that.

And people are focusing on that issue, but some people are angry that Hollywood keeps pulling this crap and wanting to take a stand.

*blinks*

Wait, I'm confused. What exactly was wrong with this comment?

A world without Asia cannot have Asian inhabitants, unless there were Asians that migrated there from Earth or something, through a magic door or I don't even know what.

What that world can have is Asian counterparts. That is, people of a race that is similar to our world. I'm guessing that's what most people mean when they say the characters are not white and/or are Asian, but the thing is, they aren't technically Asian at all. They are simply a fantasy race based on various Asian cultures.

Exactly.

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