[ SECRET POST #884 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #884 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 17 pages, 423 secrets from Secret Submission Post #127.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2(again) 3 4 5 6 7 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 - what ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[flutingfrenzy.livejournal.com]

She's my favorite fictional character, period, and a huge part of my fandom identity, but once I got over my initial anger when Bradley said that, I realized that he was absolutely right. Awfully condescending, but right.

I've never heard of anyone bashing her either, actually. The only two reasons I can think of that someone would are stupid, too--either because she gets in the way of their Roy slash pairing, or as backlash from her popularity. (Personally, I squeed like hell when I found out she had come in third in the last two Gangan popularity polls, but maybe others didn't. Still, no reason to bash.)

[(Anonymous)]

Or maybe people just don't like her character? Not that that gives them the license to bash her, but you're acting like there's no reason for anyone ever to dislike her and that's simply not true.

[flutingfrenzy.livejournal.com]

I guess I'm going by what people usually cite when they bash female characters--they're useless, they're too perfect, they get too much male attention, etc.--and those simply don't apply to her. If someone is just turned off by her character, whatever, that's one thing, but to get into bashing territory (which I tend to define as vocally, actively disliking a character for reasons presented as fact rather than as opinion) you're going to have to come up with a reason that isn't so obviously subjective, and the two I listed above are the only two I can think of that could work for her. Of course, there could be others, but as I said above, those were the ones that came to mind.

[cephiedvariable.livejournal.com]

and the two I listed above are the only two I can think of that could work for her.

There's also a complaint I find typical to anime-first fans (and one I tend to agree with, actually) that Riza is representative of that squicky way Arakawa always has her heroines being SO DEVOTED to MEN WITH MISSIONS AND PROBLEMS that are LARGER THAN LIFE. Winry is this to Ed; Ran Fan was this to Ling and Riza is very much this to Roy. The men grapple with PHILOSOPHY AND POLITICS AND LIFE AND DEATH. The women do not grapple with PHILOSOPHY AND POLITICS AND LIFE AND DEATH; they support their men.

Riza was a minor character in the anime but I thought that she was interesting regardless. It was obvious that she loved and respected Roy, but I always got the feeling that she- like the other soldiers who followed Roy- loved and respected the ideal as much as she did the man. Both were equally important to her. In the manga, it's the man first. The end. *shrug*

It's a personal preference thing. It doesn't make me dislike Riza- it makes me dislike the manga.

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

There's always Olivia Armstrong, though!

[(Anonymous)]

One independent female does not make up for three dependent leads.

[(Anonymous)]

That should say one independent minor female.

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

I agree, but she does exist, that's what I meant. So not all of them are bad! In fact, there are a few more of the supporting cast that are independent; Maria Ross, Mei Chang, Lust, Izumi Curtis, and Schiezka, for example.

I think Arakawa have a problem with the female characters that are supposed to be love interests, and have no idea how to write them without making them dependent. Which is a failing, of course; I'd much prefer if the manga had no romance. It's not that type of story anyway.

[flutingfrenzy.livejournal.com]

You know what? You're absolutely right. It wouldn't normally occur to me that someone would use that as a reason to bash, just because I tend to think of bashers as fanbratty yaoi-obsessed types who wouldn't see anything wrong with a woman compulsively arranging her life around a man, but it's true.

For the record, I was pretty angry with chapter 95.

[ceasefire.livejournal.com]

That's pretty much how I feel; I adored anime!Riza and pretty much lost my affection for manga!Riza for exactly that reason.

[mabis.livejournal.com]

This is the big reason why I like anime Riza a lot more than manga Riza. In the train scene with Winry (in the anime), I think it was implied that Riza placed her ideals well ahead of Roy, and if Roy didn't live up to her expectations, she would abandon him without regret.

[t3h-toby-chan.livejournal.com]

Yes. The only difference is that I would say that Winry out of all of them has the most implication of a life and goals outside of Ed and Al. She loves them to death like brothers and would support them forever, and if they died, she would be very sad and likely depressed for a good long while, but she would get over it, because she values herself outside of that position as their helper, and she values her life and her career and the contributions she makes to others.

Riza and Lanfan? Would more than likely kill themselves if their male counterparts died.

[palsmarties.livejournal.com]

Actually it was confirmed in the last chapter that Riza would kill herself if Mustang died.

It made me lose a lot of respect for her character.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Actually, all that was confirmed was that the prospect of that happening was something he couldn't handle.

[csakuras.livejournal.com]

Uh, she said she would kill herself if she was forced to kill him, because then Roy would have gone over to the wrong path, and it would be her fault for giving him the Flame Alchemy.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

EXACTLY! She never said "if you die, I'll kill myself." She said "if I'm forced to kill you, I'll follow." And the reason for that is that she'd only kill him if he used the knowledge he gave her to become a monster. It's a mindset similar to parents who blame themselves when their child kills someone. It's not a system of responsibility that I agree with, but it's a psychological mindset that I understand.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd say it's the anime that strips the women of any identities outside of the men myself. Unless they're Rose, and so get to be literally voiceless representations of victimization. Or Dante, and be a body thief.

Riza and Winry in the manga actually have lives and goals outside of Ed and Roy, and there's actually a purpose to Riza sticking with Roy-the fact that he's her responsibility-as opposed to the anime's near-blind devotion.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I agree with your first sentence (though most of the complaints here about how the manga treats the female characters have always seemed to be the problem with the anime to me) but I very much share your frustration regarding Rose and Dante, particularly as that's the primary role of females in the final arc. (Aside from Hawkeye's waiting in the car and then crying when she thinks Mustang is dead, but that only really bugs me due to comments I've seen that the anime is better because that Hawkeye wouldn't break down over Mustang. And the anime plays it as straight grief, whereas the manga makes it come across as post-war trauma.)

[csakuras.livejournal.com]

I disagree. Riza has ideals, motivations, and conflicts of her own. Roy inspired her to join the military, sure, but she chose to do it herself. She's the one who trusted him with her father's alchemy because she thought it could help people, and she's the one who asked Roy to burn her back because she saw all the death and destruction it caused. She devoted herself to protecting Roy and watching over his back for the future of the country, and she supports him because she believes he can make things better. They made a pact. Their relationship grew out of that.

Winry definitely has a life outside of the Elric brothers, and her own feelings regarding being an only child and losing her parents are given plenty of attention.

As for Ran Fan, her life would be devoted to Ling regardless of her gender of her feelings for him. It's her job. Fuu is the same way.

And I've seen people mention Olivier, but what about Mei? She's an alchemist traveling to a foreign country to help her people, with only a panda to support her. She falls in love, yes, but she still keeps on pursuing her own goal.