fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5982 ]

[ SECRET POST #5982 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5982 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[The Spirit and the Mouse]

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[Cursed Princess Club]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 29 secrets from Secret Submission Post #855.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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04. https://i.imgur.com/xbRes4Y.png

I disagree with thia definition of anti-hero.

I think it's exactly the opposite.

The 2nd one is an anti-hero. The 1st one is just a hero who's maybe a little morally complex.

This is about what I was thinking, too.

Yes, agreed

An antihero (sometimes spelled as anti-hero)[1] or antiheroine is a main character in a story who may lack conventional heroic qualities and attributes, such as idealism, courage, and morality.[1][2][3][4][5] Although antiheroes may sometimes perform actions that most of the audience considers morally correct, their reasons for doing so may not align with the audience's morality.[6] An antihero typically exhibits one of the "Dark Triad" personality traits, which include narcissism, psychopathy, and Machiavellianism.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antihero

I think both (definitions in the secret) are interesting, though they're not always done in such a way that *plays* interesting.

I agree with the other commenters above. An antihero is someone who does heroic things because they're forced into it, not because they've decided to become a nice person.

Yes, or they're someone who does heroic things in morally dubious ways. Or may be doing more harm than good even if the good things they are doing are very much good.

Or someone who does good things for bad reasons. It's entirely possible for dubious motivations to lead to outcomes that are undeniably good, and that's where anti-heroes are the most fun to read about, IMO.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2023-05-24 05:04 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2023-05-24 05:43 (UTC) - Expand

Or because it benefits them in some way, or because they're bored and there was nothing else to do, or because it annoys the hero to have the day be saved by someone they consider beneath them, or because they're motivated by some factor other than being A Good Person - i.e., they save the crashing train because one person they care about is on it, but if that person wasn't there, they wouldn't bother. There are so many situations for anti-heroes to do good!

Anti-hero is a really really broad category.

The 'anti' in antihero has a meaning you seem to be disregarding - it's a prefix meaning “against,” “opposite of,” “antiparticle of,” used in the formation of compound words.

Yeah to me, someone like Thanos is an anti-hero. He is doing morally (to a hero) reprehensible things for what he sees as a good thing (resource management, attempting to make life better and easier on the remaining populations).

I'd class that as the opposite of an anti-hero personally. Anti-villain? Anti-heroes generally still are doing /something/ right, even if by unconventional methods, and usually don't have any illusions about themselves. Someone /thinking/ they're doing the right thing isn't an anti-hero trait at all, imo

That’s just a villain. Most villains think what they’re doing is justified except for the handful that do it for the lulz.

Thanos is a villain who thinks he's justified - like most real-life villains, sad to say.

https://thewritepractice.com/anti-heroes/

According to this article, both of your examples can be classified as anti-heroes because there are different types of anti-heroes.

Oh, that's a really good article about the different types of anti-heroes with good examples. (I think they're reaaallly stretching it with Frodo, but absolutely 100% Haymitch, Snape, Jack Sparrow, and the colder/more arrogant and selfish versions of Sherlock Holmes)

NAYRT

Great article and omg TIL my icon/dreamboat from childhood to adolescence Jack Sparrow is considered an unscrupulous anti-hero. I don't know how I categorized him before, but any kind of hero never was on the list

Oh, this IS good

Some more characters who are various types of anti-hero:

Aziraphale and Crowley
Almost every protagonist in Game of Thrones, especially Arya, Tyrion, Dany (up until S8), and Jon
Harry Dresden
Gideon Nav and Harrowhark Nonagesimus (and almost everyone else in those books who's not a straight-up villain)
Fëanor for sure, definitely Bilbo Baggins, and to hear some people tell it, Éowyn. Also definitely the ROP version of Galadriel
Almost every main character in Our Flag Means Death, especially both Stede and Ed
Magneto (depending on arc), Deadpool, Namor
Dream of the Endless
John Constantine
(depending on arc) Catwoman, Harley Quinn
Han Solo, Lando Calrissian
AJ Raffles and every single other charming thief character (protagonists of every heist movie ever)

by no means an exhaustive list only a few from fandoms I know well. Bring me your charming rogues and your trauma-bound surly bitches (gender-inclusive), yearning to breathe free!

These are two different kinds of anti-hero.

This secret and all the responses are just making me think of Yuri Petrov and his arc in Tiger & Bunny 2 and making me terribly sad-for-him/proud-of-him all over again, whether he's an anti-hero or something else. <3

I define anti-hero from a literary perspective. a hero has a morality that is justified in the meta-text of the novel, and has a goal that valuable, as judged by the meta-text. by meta-text I mean that looking critically at the text, you would get the impression that the morality of the hero is consistent with the morality advanced by the text and the goal is advanced as worthy for the text. this is to deal with unreliable narrators and settings in which most people are shitty. sometimes the hero is doing something that the meta-text is saying was correct, but is getting a lot of flack both internal to themselves and external from other characters. I would still consider that person a hero, not an anti-hero.

an anti-hero has the goal like a hero, but the morality is not justified by the meta-text or vice versa (but i don't think i've ever seen vice-versa).

but i also don't think all texts are actually dealing with heroes/villains (aka the meta-text is not actually trying to advance a morality, even if it does seem to have a point of view) and a lot of people try to pin "anti-hero" to the protagonists of those texts...you really don't have to. Not every significant character needs to be categorized.

I mostly agree with this

Except I think any narrative is advancing a point of view morally whether or not it intends to

I agree that every narrative has a point of view, i don't agree that it's always advancing that as a value system. You see this a lot with character studies. The text is simply explorative, and imposing a hero/anti-hero analysis gains you very little.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2023-05-25 16:58 (UTC) - Expand

One way I had it explained to me that stuck with me:

OT Luke Skywalker is a hero. Han Solo is an anti-hero.

Part of the reason a lot of people disliked TLJ so much is that they were angry Luke became an anti-hero.

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