fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5984 ]

[ SECRET POST #5984 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5984 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Criminal Minds]

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[Harry Chapin]

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[Harry Potter]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 11 secrets from Secret Submission Post #855.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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09. https://i.imgur.com/Ans9ltb.jpg

Yeah, but this is also a series where reincarnation is a thing. Surely, ONE Link could be a girl, right? It's what I've wanted for ages (insert, Little Girl Me wanted to be the hero of the Zelda game self-insert, etc etc) and I still want this.

Better yet, I wish Zelda would let us customize our Link so they can be whoever we want them to be. Again, reincarnation! I feel this is justified!

Wasn't Linkle basically that?

I don't know much about Linkle since I never played Hyrule Warriors, but wasn't she basically someone who thought she was a reincarnated Link, but actually wasn't? Not dismissing her as a character, but I'm not sure I'd count her. I don't know, maybe someone who played the game will know better?

Linkle's a joke character. Like, literally, the joke is she's borderline incompetent, somehow stumbles into adventure on accident, only really survives because she kinda utilizes the lethality of cuckoos, and then stumbles back out.

When I was a little girl I was adamant that Link was a girl. As I flipped through the little booklet that came with the book, I thought surely they made a mistake and Link is a girl. All those "he" and "him"? Editor's mistake. I wanted to Link to be a girl so bad. I wanted to play as Din or Nayru. I i thought Link was Zelda.

All that said, I wouldn't mind a customizable buddy for Link that you can also control for some parts of the game (so you can play as Link OR buddy)

I can relate to the little-kid part. When I was a kid, I was convinced that Rudyard Kipling's Kaa was an enormous, majestic spymaster of a she-snake, and Disney just found everything about her too ethically complicated and threatening and genderflipped the character. (Not that I didn't like their version of Kaa.) It was such a fixed idea that when I read the Jungle Books myself, at thirteen, on an emotional level I felt like the books had been altered. Of course, I realized the odds of that were basically nil, but it was such a strong impression. What's particularly weird was that I was also sure - and had no more of a reason think this - that Kaa and Mowgli were fast friends in the original story. And that part turned out to be true.

So, anyway, empathizing muchly, OP.

I understand where you're coming from and your feelings are valid. But flip that around and all that feeling and how much it would mean is exactly the same for people who would want a female Link. People who agree Link is a full character that means a lot and they have grown up with and would just like a female representation of a character that means so much to them. I don't think there's really a right or wrong on this one, just different perspectives.

For the record, Zelda is one of the rare sources I wouldn't want it gender flipped. I have always just wanted a Zelda that focused on Zelda rescuing Link. Flip the roles, not the genders. When I was a teen a Sheik Zelda game was the game I longed for.

I feel the same. I think canon gender swapping is a slippery slope and the results are usually pretty bad (though there are times it makes sense, like Doctor Who). Link has a very distinct personality to me that just doesn’t translate. The character would have to be completely rewritten and at that point it isn’t the same character, it’s a replacement.
I think for me part of the disconnect with that section of the fandom is that I don’t understand why Link needs to be gender swapped in the first place. It isn’t like us girls aren’t allowed to play the game or something; I’ve been playing Zelda games since the first one came out around 30~ years ago. And the character IS a character, not merely an avatar; he has some consistent traits across incarnations but isn’t really fleshed out which makes it easier to project onto him. But I’ve never known anyone who projects themselves to that extent, it’s pretty specifically role-playing. Which, heh, it does happen to be a role-playing game. If fans don’t like playing the role, then why are they fans?

I haven't played the game, so this is a genuinely curious question: what qualities does Link have that couldn't be translated into a female character?

(On the face of it, a lightweight, delicately framed character is v. easy to read as female. So is all the high-jumping Link seems to do.)

This ^^

I think for me part of the disconnect with that section of the fandom is that I don’t understand why Link needs to be gender swapped in the first place.

Same, honestly. Not to mention that, hello, Zelda? Zelda is awesome. We have so many different Zeldas who are all awesome! Sometimes Zelda is even more awesome and plot-relevant than Link, and she's definitely way more developed as an actual character. Link has always been just sort of bland to me, it's Zelda who is the interesting one.

Zelda is almost always removed from the story with little to no agency, though. Like, how many fucking times does she end up the damsel in distress? All of them?

It’s not a slippery slope.

Link has a very distinct personality to me that just doesn’t translate.

Doesn’t translate to what? His distinct personality isn’t his gender. That’s intentional on the creator’s part.

The character would have to be completely rewritten and at that point it isn’t the same character, it’s a replacement.

Untrue. The character would not have to be completely rewritten. It’s weird to suggest otherwise, especially because you’ve provided no examples of what about being male is so essential to the character or his personality. A female Link would not be a “replacement” any more than the different Links we already get in almost every game.

It isn’t like us girls aren’t allowed to play the game or something; I’ve been playing Zelda games since the first one came out around 30~ years ago.

So have I, and many others who would love to see a female Link. We’re just as valid as fans.

And the character IS a character, not merely an avatar;

Very true. And nothing about that is tied into his gender.

If fans don’t like playing the role, then why are they fans?

Fans love playing the role. They love playing all the different Links, exploring all the distinctions between them, but also what ties them all together as a legacy. We’re fans because we’re fans. It’s absurd to ask why someone is a fan just for wanting a character that already changes constantly to have one specific change. It wouldn’t “ruin” the character. And you’re completely ignoring that there’s entire games beyond just the player character of Link. Not only are people that want a female Link just as valid of a fan as you are, but they also can appreciate the whole experience without acting like one small difference would make a game unplayable, a world unraveled. They honestly sound like they’re even bigger fans because of how they love to explore the canon, explore the possibilities, and don’t treat the whole thing like “role-play” like you

The character would not have to be completely rewritten.

They would, though? Because being raised and socialized as male is completely different from being raised and socialized as female. That's just a fact.

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(Anonymous) - 2023-05-27 03:17 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2023-05-27 05:03 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2023-05-27 05:19 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2023-05-27 07:51 (UTC) - Expand

This is generally how I feel about genderswaps in general. If I'm attached to a character, then I'm not really interested in genderswaps because, to me, they aren't the same person anymore. Maybe they're a similar person--a variant on a theme, if you will--but they're not the same person.

This. And if they ARE trying to make them the same person, then that's missing the entire point of a genderswap in the first place.

But they're all different Links unless you think the guy's survived thousands of in-game years.

I said I'm generally not into genderswaps. I have zero knowledge of this game specifically, so idk. This is an argument for op, not me.

I don't play these, just observe but...I thought that was a plot point?

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2023-05-26 21:56 (UTC) - Expand

Link was specifically designed to be gender neutral

+1, the reason Aonuma said he doesn't want a "girl Link" is that it would confirm current Link as a boy. Also the character I've seen the most trans headcanons for in any fandom.

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(Anonymous) - 2023-05-26 04:27 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2023-05-26 19:49 (UTC) - Expand

There are like eight different Links though, what does it matter if the ninth is a girl?

I want just one Link to be a girl purely because I love him and identify with him so much as a character, and I know it wouldn’t change Link on a character level, just give a new facet to add to the character’s intricacies. The people who want a female Link are just as valid fans as you are, they’re not asking for something that would ruin the character. Especially because, as others have said, almost every game has a different Link, with the exception of direct sequels and prequels. So it would do nothing to disrupt the character to make one Link a girl. He could go from gender neutral but assumed/presenting as male to gender neutral but presenting as female.

And when you say “to me he is as much of a character as any video game character”, why do you assume people who want one girl Link don’t also view him the same way, just because they want something you personally wouldn’t like? Again, they’re just as valid fans of the series and character as you. And why do you think that the character would be compromised just because of a genderswap? You act like keeping him male is preserving his character, but it isn’t, and he’s purposely supposed to be gender neutral anyways. And Link could very much be the same character, but with a different gender. Because he wasn’t written with his gender being a character trait. You seem to know that, but still use “I don’t want him to be a girl because I actually care about him as a character” as your argument. It doesn’t make any sense to me.

I love the character, and I love when each new iteration brings something new to the legacy, even if they’re actually separate characters most of the time. I love seeing different facets of Link explored. And as as trans person, gender is another thing I think could be explored in a cool way if they were ever to make a girl Link. So while it’s also valid that Aonuma doesn’t want to make a girl Link, because he doesn’t want to retroactively make the other Links explicitly male, I still don’t personally see it that way. Because there’s such a thing as presentation, without changing sex or gender. Link is gender neutral, and not stereotypically masculine. Which has always been a great choice. But there is still ways to make a Link that is slightly different from the androgynous way he looks now, to a female-presenting way, that would satisfy the desire for a “girl Link”. Possibly without actually confirmation of an actual swapped gender. Link could even still be gender neutral, just with a different look.

I just don’t agree at all with this secret, because whether it’s intentional or not, it seems to suggest that people who want a girl Link, or anything remotely similar to that, don’t really appreciate or understand the character. And that’s completely untrue. It’s fine that you don’t want it, but that doesn’t mean that it’s wrong.

And despite what some people have said upthread, gender-swapping and the like isn’t a “slippery slope”. That’s honestly ridiculous imo, because the concept has been around for so long, and been done so many times. And yet it hasn’t taken over and been made ubiquitous like an actual slippery slope concept would. Making this one character a different gender, or at least have them present differently, would not end up how these people are suggesting. It’s such a strange thing to even say, imho.

"Making this one character a different gender, or at least have them present differently, would not end up how these people are suggesting. It’s such a strange thing to even say, imho."

It's really not. If you gender-swap Link and the only difference is "it's Link, but now she has tits" then there's literally no point to the gender-swap because it's ignoring the fact that a male Link and a female Link would have different lived experiences that would affect who they are. And if they don't have different lived experiences, then... why gender-swap at all?

I would be down for a female Link that actually explored how a female Link would differ from a male Link. I'm not down for a female Link that has absolutely no differences from their male counterpart.

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