fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #6006 ]

⌈ Secret Post #6006 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[From]

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[Youtube channel "Hello Future Me"]

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[Monark]

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09. [SPOILERS for Across the Spiderverse]

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10. [WARNING for transphobia/standard JKR stuff]

Notes:

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Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

The business with hormones gave me pause, too. I have doctors in my family, and a lot of the reassuring-sounding stuff that I saw being floated to the general public about how "harmless" and "reversible" it was to give testosterone to girls and estrogen to boys was flat out untrue. Now more is coming out: the damage to the skeletal system, the way it screws up growth, the involuntary sterilization, the increased risks for cancer, and the fact that someone who's been on hormones is a lifelong client of the medical system. And this is just skimming the surface of the problems.

I can empathize with trans activists being defensive - many of their assertions really brings out the conservative crazies. But medical interventions tend to be presented in an irresponsibly optimistic way, and it's not doing anyone any favors to pretend widespread unwanted effects are not worth mentioning. When the patients of course will find out, and so will their families, and by now people who have nothing to do with it are asking questions that indicate considerably more knowledge of what can go wrong than they would have had five years ago.

The thing with TRAs is, they basically live with a cult mentality where parroting each and every talking point is mandatory, facts or critical research be damned, and any criticism of the cause is heresy and gets you on the witch-hunt list. Everything they accuse others of -cherry picking studies, confirmation bias, undactual statements based on hearsay- they are guilty of ten times over.

This. And now they're turning into Trans Terrorists with death threats and doxxing. It's like neo-Nazi internet shit.

AYRT

While I think your criticism is unfortunately warranted, they're still far superior IMO to Christian reactionaries. (Speaking of heresy and witch-hunters.) Trans activists seem to sincerely want a world where humans can go from being one sex to being the other, and it's hard to imagine a better way to dismantle gender essentialism than making it so that people feel like whatever happens to the opposite sex could happen to them. While Christians seem nostalgic for a time when they could force everyone else to do what they claim their obsolete book says because they had the violence of the state on their side. That's the social order they're trying to bring back with their forced-pregnanices fetish, and every bit of it makes my skin crawl.

That said, what these treatments, hormones, and surgeries can actually deliver, in reality, not only falls far short of what is being promised, it also has a whole slew of unwanted health effects that cannot be avoided. And most people being offered hormones don't seem to know what they're really getting, and a lot of the not-desired effects are permanent.

I see people downthread wanting to claim that the amount of people who detransition is negligible, but as far as I can tell, they're doing damage control. They're not addressing the fact that it's impossible to develop a sexually functional adult body of either gender while on the medical treatments recommended to trans people.

NAYRT

The amount of people who detransition IS negligible. But that doesn't mean they aren't people whose circumstances require study, consideration, and whatever treatment they need. Gender affirming medical treatment is the same as any other treatment. It comes with side effects, it comes with regret rates, it comes with a number of people who couldn't conceptualize what the results would actually mean. That is a fact of, like, just medical care. Some treatments for cancer render you infertile. People get upset about this after the fact because they didn't really get it at the time. Some people don't regain their sex drive after being on SSRIs. This was mentioned when I went on SSRIs but I guarantee that there are tons of people who don't understand how statistics work and think that it will never be them.

There is no treatment that is best for everyone. Hell, there aren't any treatments that are the best thing for even one person. They all come with unanticipated consequences and undesirable side effects. Everyone has to make their own informed choice and sometimes they can regret that. Sometimes it will be the best choice in the moment for the person they were at that time. Sometimes they will change who they are enough to regret it, like getting that tattoo. It means that more study needs to be done on making sure that people actually are INFORMED on the informed consent part. Most of the attention has been on race in this area, with very documented rates of doctors not making sure that their BIPOC patients understand all the options and side effects that can be permanent. The science is getting better all the time.

We're in complete agreement on the importance of informed consent and the reality of unwanted treatment effects. And yeah - this is something that hasn't been integrated enough into how people think about a lot of aspects of medicine.

But most people I see wanting to transition picture their future as an allosexual, if they started out as one. They have dreams about having a partner who finds them attractive, and vice versa. They want to be able to have sex and want sex, preferably without extreme pain or risking a trip to the emergency room. And beyond that, the hormones can leave them with genitals that feel like they don't even belong to their body.

It's possible that doctors scrupulously explained the various things that could happen, but what I get from people who are willing to talk about it is literally "I was never told."

Transitioning has a lower regret percentage rate than knee surgery

NAYRT

Is therr a source for that?

(Honestly, I think with these types of arguments we need to start automatically including sources no matter the position taken.)

No there isn't and even if there was, the tendency to violently trying to shut up detransitioners is always very present in the trans/-ally movement.

Yes there is, see below. Also, no one should be violently shutting up people who de-transition. We need their data to better figure out the science behind trans people, the best treatment options, and the best social support. If someone de-transitions because of bad treatment, we need to know. If someone de-transitions because they're not getting enough support, we need to know. If someone de-transitions because they figured out they made a mistake, we need to know so we can better support people before they elect to undergo a major life change. We need ALL the data.

Current data suggest the VAST majority don't regret it.

AYRT

Yes, here you go:

A Lancet study in the Netherlands says 0.3% regret rate

https://journals.lww.com/plasreconsurg/Abstract/9900/_Regret_after_Gender_Affirming_Surgery___A.1529.aspx

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health estimates 1% in North America, and that regret rates decline as treatment options improve:

https://apnews.com/article/transgender-treatment-regret-detransition-371e927ec6e7a24cd9c77b5371c6ba2b

And NIH says less than 1%, and the major reason of regret is other people:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/

Compared with the NIH report that 18% of people regret their knee surgery:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6961288/

AYRT

Yay! Thank you! Now I have stuff I can plow through that also fits into my interest of media analysis.

As far as I know, that's not something anyone can assert with any authority because gender clinics have done a really terrible job following up with people who detransition.

See studies upthread. At least one is a meta study.

[ SECRET POST #6006 ]

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