[ SECRET POST #6007 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6007 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 43 secrets from Secret Submission Post #859.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, there was death wishes in the most popular thread on fs yesterday. =( The person it was directed at didn't reply and no one paid any attention to it as if it were normal.

I came to conclusion that the only way to avoid extreme toxicity like death wishes, ra*ism and profanity is to have a strict moderation like FF14. Three strikes and your account is out, permanently. People suck.

[(Anonymous)]

Kinda surprised Case didn't do anything about that.

[(Anonymous)]

No one put it in the mod thread

[(Anonymous)]

I think everyone ignoring it was an appropriate response. Don't give nonsense pointless replies like that attention and just move on to people who actually want a conversation.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt
We can't be sure if a person ignored it because they dgaf or because they were hurt and depressed.

[(Anonymous)]

Unfortunately, this.

I appreciate that Fandomsecrets as a whole makes room for people who speak up when they think a statement should not go unchallenged, instead of berating them with the flawed notion that trolls would go away if no one said anything to them. I've never seen that work in any community. Wheras, when comments that are hurtful are followed by comments from people who think that's shitty behavior, the people reading the thread can feel like the rest of us have their backs. Works for me whether I'm lurking or commenting, it's great.

[(Anonymous)]

The "most popular thread" was, of course, being angry about TERFs, reasonably so. And frankly, as someone trans, I'm tired of placating TERFs. They want to legislate me into suicide, they can get flung stuff right back at them.

[(Anonymous)]

Wishing hurt (and particularly death) on TERFS doesn't get anyone anywhere and, in fact, further ingrains them in their belief system. The only way to change people's minds on these things is to have a conversation with them (hence the original OP's point).

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT - Historically, and up to today, that has almost never worked. By the time someone has reached the "you and people like you shouldn't exist at all, and definitely shouldn't be allowed to exist near 'normal people'" level that TERFS are currently at, all anyone can really do is try to limit the amount of power they have to put their desires into action and wait for them to die off. By expecting the minority that's being threatened to make nice with the TERFs advocating for their segregation, loss of rights, and death, you are creating an additional burden for people who are already being attacked. If you read through that discussion yesterday and came to the conclusion that the real problem is AYRT's tone, all that does is let them know that you aren't safe to be around.

[(Anonymous)]

"Read through the discussion?" Quite a few of the people you're addressing were in yesterday's thread, and I think it's fair to say FS anons generally expect the people having a conversation here to be able to deal with disagreement. Without assuming they're constantly being threatened with death.

[(Anonymous)]

A tiny proportion are at that level. Most just want to be safe and feel the lack of women only spaces will deny that.

But yes, it's absolutely just about wanting you to die. Sure.

Safety for trans women shouldn't be bought at the cost of safety for real women.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

I feel like you missed the landing by saying "real women". To me, those last two words make your point about safety for any/all women ring hollow.

(For a bit more background on why I point out the phrase "real women": I have found that "No true Scostman"-like phrase to be an issue ever since it was beibg touted in Dove campaigns back in the 2010s.)

[(Anonymous)]

They missed their troll landing, yes. If they’d left off the “real women” part, they wouldn’t have immediately outed themselves as imitating a JKR-style “fake women are hiding under your toilets” TERF in order to hurt and anger people for fun. Normal people don’t worry about that shit because it’s been proven over and over again to be a far-right psyop.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I got more of an "almost there but not quite" impression from that statement and was critiquing the execution.

[(Anonymous)]

As a cis woman (or if you want it in words you'll accept, a "real woman") I don't feel safe if trans women aren't safe. I feel less safe every time I hear about another hate crime or more legislation passed that denies trans people yet another thing. If we let that happen, sooner or later it could all too likely be all women, all queer people, all people with my disability. In fact, never mind sooner or later in some places, where the same people are already doing it to all these groups too! But even if they weren't, I don't feel safe if my friends aren't safe. I guess you don't understand since you wouldn't be friends with any trans people. So yeah, I don't know why I'm telling you this. You won't understand. But enjoy losing your rights with me, fellow "real" woman.

[(Anonymous)]

As another cis woman: word. We're sleep walking into our reproductive rights being ever diminished because oooh scary trans women (who aren't actually scary of course) in the toilets and wanting to play sports.

I'm glad I'm getting closer to menopause so won't face this pain for much longer, but weep for my younger sisters who are going to have little or no access to contraception and abortion due to the goal post shifting over bodily autonomy and what age anyone can make any decisions about their own health. Some (mostly men because of fucking course) are even advocating a return to wives having only a partial say in major decisions relating to a marriage. Not to mention most of us lucky enough to age will probably become disabled at some point and the infantilisation of anyone with a disability goes hand in hand with reducing bodily autonomy. But hey, at least there aren't any trans women in our toilets!

[(Anonymous)]

Do you understand that calling trans women "unsafe" is the problem?

[(Anonymous)]

There was anon that worked in a women shelter a year or two ago here with this stance. I don't know the answer but I hope that some sort of solution and compromise to be had here.

[(Anonymous)]

This.

[(Anonymous)]

Yup.

[(Anonymous)]

Unironically I hope you end up homeless and with real problems in your life with everyone you love laughing at you.
Cis woman here. Unironically kill yourself.

Then you should be fine with being told this. These are the messages from that thread. If this is your reasonable.

[(Anonymous)]

Buddy, I hear that shit all the time as someone trans. Just add, "Also you're inherently a pedo grooming children" and "I hope everyone like you is put in front of a firing squad." That last one was said by a real politician, even!

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, then feel free to comment like this on fs. You suffered enough so you get a free reign.

[(Anonymous)]

This just sounds like "I will tell the world that I get abused all the time, so you should all be okay with my being a shit to everyone I see. I suffer more than all the people I could possibly ever meet, I've earned it."

We are not politicians. You've got no right to take your anger out on whichever rando just happens to be here. So we'll keep treating this kind of behavior like it's not okay, because it isn't. And no amount of objecting that you're expressing the Righteous Anger Of The Oppressed is going to change anyone's mind about that. Because there are too many people already who think that's a reasonable way to behave. Who think their pain is some sort of licence to be a complete shit to others.

A lot of onlookers learned their lesson from the sordid debacle with RequiresHate. A lot more people figure it out from just intuitively understanding that the universe doesn't get any less unjust because they let self-righteous strangers berate and insult them.

[(Anonymous)]

It seemed to me like everyone who was playing rough knew what they were doing? But you might be right - I kind of appreciate that you were keeping track of whether a specific anon disappeared after a comment like that. The thread sprawled so much that I had enough on my hands just paying attention to everything that was added.