fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #6007 ]

[ SECRET POST #6007 ]

⌈ Secret Post #6007 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 43 secrets from Secret Submission Post #859.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I'm not interested in having a fight, or enabling someone else's bad faith arguing. Most people don't want a discussion. They just want a response so they can keep on dumping on people they declare wrong.

+1000

I have seen that so many times in so many places lately, and the people who claim to be the most progressive are quite often the worst about it.

and the people who claim to be the most progressive are quite often the worst about it

I've observed this not only online but in offline spaces (such as city advisory boards and commissions).

That is because a lot of progressives or Left-wingers are crypto-fascists in the end.

Now that was a bad faith argument, so thanks for demonstrating one for us!

It was not!

DA

I think you're referring to the Horseshoe Theory?

"In popular discourse,[1] the horseshoe theory asserts that the extreme left and the extreme right, rather than being at opposite and opposing ends of a linear political continuum, closely resemble each other, analogous to the way that the opposite ends of a horseshoe are close together."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

Basically, the more someone thinks the other side is The Absolute Worst, the more they feel justified in using objectively shitty tactics to oppose them. And edge closer to The Absolute Worst themselves.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2023-06-18 06:26 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2023-06-18 14:20 (UTC) - Expand

Mm. Very poor choice of words. But I'll admit that I miss the days when the right went around blithely claiming that everyone was as blindly dogmatic as they were ... and it was demonstraby untrue. Because unlike them, leftists didn't tend to interpret disagreement as disloyalty. They saw it as proof that the world was complex and worthy of more curiosity and more exploration. And that's part of what made me feel like we had values in common. Whereas, these days? Use the wrong word or express the wrong thought and you're a heretic. It's just the name-calling that varies a little.

And not only a heretic, but some sort of un-person who is an acceptable target for any amount of abuse and cruelty.

Exactly.

You ever notice that the people who make the "I miss when we could disagree about things without taking it as an attack" argument are never talking about things like whether we should focus transportation funding on expanding public transportation or replacing existing infrastructure? They're always talking about civil rights and who does and does not deserve them. It's funny how that works.

DA

I sometimes see this attitude from people who regularly discuss infrastructure issues. Strong Towns Instagram is a good starting point for this (along with urbanist YouTube).

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2023-06-21 22:24 (UTC) - Expand

Weirdly enough, I have a hypothesis that a large swath of people online are deathly afraid of disagreement. So it's easier to just reject someone who has values which don't align with their own, rather than have a thoughtful and empathetic discussion about it.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2023-06-21 22:33 (UTC) - Expand

ayrt

Same here. It's like there's no room for any disagreement about anything; you have to agree with these people about everything or you are automatically a Bad Person and they are justified in being as hateful as they please, no matter what. And then nothing gets done.

It's like straight-up Puritanism, this idea that there are inherently Good People and Bad People and it's both provable and permanent.

Yeah.

I hate that I agree, but yeah.

Going in with that attitude is a big part of the problem.

nayrt

They aren't wrong, though.

Totally disagree. I think going in with the idea of "everyone wants a fight nobody wants to talk" is just a self fulfilling prophecy of doom. If you have that attitude why even bother commenting on places?

DA

Because they like the challenge?

ayrt

These days, I usually don't.

Holy hell, just reading through the discussion up top makes me realize even FS has changed it's tone drastically! I miss the days we could debate a topic without it devolving into name calling.

DA

Agreed. It's one thing to argue, but a lot of us could stand to learn how to argue better.

NAYRT

I think so, too.

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