fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #6020 ]

[ SECRET POST #6020 ]

⌈ Secret Post #6020 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07. [SPOILERS for Good Omens season 2]

__________________________________________________

08. [WARNING for discussion of sexual misconduct allegations]

__________________________________________________

09. [WARNING for discussion of sexual assault]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #860.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I completely support your just glancing at their slogan and going "nah," without wasting another second on them. They're not entitled to your attention.

I read the DW page where the group made their case, and I think "they mean well" is giving them too much credit: they absolutely don't. They're expecting other fans to take it on faith that they will lobby for only the deletion of evil stories that were written with the "intent" of making non-whites on the AO3 feel "unwelcome." (Their definition, not mine.)

I poked at one incident they cited obliquely and found it involved a famous academic publicly criticizing an Omegaverse, Nazi fanfic hosted on the AO3, called The Liberator, on her wallet-name Twitter account, and then claiming she was being harassed because the author added the tag "Rukmini Pande Lied About This Fic." The author amended the tag within 48 hours to something that didn't name names. From what I can see, this is an erotic story set in a concentration camp that centers a Nazi death camp commander and the American soldier who captured him. The author is supposedly racist and threatening because she snarked at a non-white academic who's published several books about fandom and who was criticizing her story in name-space in public.

As best I can tell, this campaign is about a small group of activists trying to assert power over what can be published on the AO3. And also lobbying for the archive to do such things as "hire a diversity consultant within the next 3-6 months" and publish "quarterly updates" on its progress in addressing racism.

I suspect that what they really want is to be able to remove any content they don't like from AO3 on the grounds that it's racist. I've noticed that they are very vague on how they intend to define this, and what criteria they intend to apply.

That's exactly how it looks to me, too. And I don't think anyone should be in a position to do that.

they literally just want otw to stick to the promise it already made, years ago, and get SOMEONE ELSE who is not affiliated with the campaign to make RECOMMENDATIONS about issues of racism on ao3.

def sounds like a cabal with a hidden agenda to police content they don't like

also that nazi fic author literally said on their twitter they wrote the fic for outrage clicks - and then said in fic comments they wrote it to ~educate. that author was desperate for controversy and an opportunity to make themselves the victim to their readership

Baying for the removal of a deliberately incendiary fic just because the author is a drama llama who is 'desperate for controversy' is still an asshole move -- especially since, with the recent implementation of blocking and muting, no-one even needs to see that fic at all if they don't want to. Not to mention how it has nothing at all to do with actual harm done to real POC... least of all the ones the EOTWR clique shuts down or vilifies because they said mean things about their precious Black BFF.

And it REALLY doesn't help the EOTWR clique's claims that they're not trying to censor, control, and remove content based on their own arbitrary definitions.

So much this.

+billions

So the author was an asshole & there was drama , years ago (when those blocking features didn’t exist), what does that have to do with EROTW literally just wanting OTW to stick to their already given promise (or publicly address it at least?)

DA

AO3 was EXPLICITLY created to NOT censor ANYTHING. Is it legal? Yes. Is it fandom? Yes. Then it goes in the archive. I don't give one solitary FUCK what you or anyone else feels about any individual thing on the archive. You can block it, you can get an extension that blocks tags so that you never see any of it. You can block the author. You curate your own experience. But you don't get to be the morality police. If it fits the legal and fandom criteria IT FUCKING WELL STAYS.

Fuck you.

NAYRT (obviously)

+100000000

Wtf did anything you said have to do with OTW committing publicly (in the past & present) to act on racist shit on the Archive? If you have a problem with that take it up with OTW who are apparently working on it actively. being angry at some imagined morality police campaign isn’t gonna stop what the OTW is doing of their own free will lol

Also the archive ALREADY has content moderation but sure go off I guess lol

It has to do with the fact that these EOTWR people got what they said they wanted. Yet they're still campaigning. For what? Let's ask them directly, shall we?

"Our concern is with racist fan works written for the purpose of making the fan site unwelcoming to fans of color."

Who gets to decide what the purpose of the fic is? Who gets to decide if that fic actually makes someone uncomfortable? And who gets to decide that the rest of us can't read it and make a decision for ourselves? They seem to think they do.

"We’re... asking ... for the OTW to implement common-sense measures to make the AO3 and the organization more inclusive."

Who gets to decide what "common-sense measures" are? Who gets to decide how the correct way of implementing them? They SAY that they want OTW to "ultimately determine", but OTW HAS ALREADY DONE THAT. It's their current anti-harassment policy where anyone can block anyone. So again, mission accomplished. So they're still campaigning for... what?

And here it is:

"this may result in creators receiving warnings about their works that are in violation of the new harassment policies. However, the end goal is not censorship,"

You can SAY the end goal is not censorship... but it's fucking censorship. It's the literal definition of censorship.

Censorship: the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security.

"creators receiving warnings about their works that are in violation of the new harassment policies" = "the suppression or prohibition of any parts...that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable"

OTW did commit publicly to act on racist shit. They've done so, they're still continuing to do so. They've been a bit busy with the CHILD PORN ATTACK ON THEIR VOLUNTEERS, so please excuse them if they don't have this as their foremost priority.

So why are people putting Stop OTW Racism (and SPECIFICALLY "OTW", not fandom racism, the organization specifically) on their fic AFTER the anti-harassment policies went active?

Because it was never about protecting fans of color. It was always about censorship. And they're not done yet.

Wow this is a very long way of saying “I didn’t know OTW actually committed to hiring an external consultant & is still working on that now in addition to the existing features”

Anyway it’s def just evil censorship & not literally asking the org to continue to update about an ongoing process the org itself is interested in carrying out & has been ongoing since 2020

I brought receipts. Put up or shut up.

Receipts of what? You literally just quoted their about page. What does that have to do with OTW’s statement on continuing to work on hiring a consultant? Are you just completely unaware of it?

nayrt

Check the links provided upthread.

That’s not what “receipts” means.

DA

In fandom, "receipts" can be used as a synonym for "proof." Kindly refrain from correcting people about things you don't know.

I know what it means, I’m saying you’re misusing the term, because you provided no proof. You just skimmed some sentences off of their about section. This isn’t providing screenshots of DMs that expose someone of wrongdoing, that’s the kind of thing that “providing the receipts” means. Not finding some easily available information that the group you’re against wants people to see. You can point out hypocrisy or double standards using information they give out and the things they say vs. the actions they take. But that’s not inherently having “receipts”. A much closer example to the definition is the anons upthread providing multiple links. You’ve done no such thing, just clipped some sentences from the about/FAQ section. Kindly refrain from assuming people don’t know things, and being patronizing, when you’re not using a phrase correctly. I was correcting you just like the anon above me did about receipts, and you just foolishly jumped to the conclusion that I didn’t know what it meant without any real reason to believe that.

Also, “receipts” to mean proof isn’t a “fandom” thing just because it’s used in fandom. It started in the mainstream over 10 years ago, and stemmed from an interview with Whitney Houston in 2002. Acting like it’s a fandom thing is much more “correcting people about things you don't know”, then me telling you that you aren’t using it correctly, which is true.

AYRT

>you provided no proof

First of all, I'm not the person you(?) were arguing with above.

I commented because they made the point that the EOTWR campaign is lobbying for broad authority to get rid of fanfics they don't like, and backed it up with information that a lot of people have probably not gone and read. It's not a receipt because they had to break into someone's office to get it, but because instead of just expecting everyone to take their word for it, they quoted from the stated goals of the group and tailored their objections to that.

The definition of "receipts" you're putting forward seems questionably narrow.

>It started in the mainstream over 10 years ago [...]

Reciepts to mean proof certainly is a fandom thing. Whether it came from somewhere else, previously, makes little difference to this conversation.

DA

No, the AYRT is just addressing a different point than the one you keep trying to derail to. I'm skeptical that an organization that floundered ineffectually in the wake of its volunteers being threatened with doxxing or death-by-cop "needs" to prioritize hiring a diversity consultant. But more to the point, if you think the archive agreed to remove stories based on this group - or anyone else - criticising their availability, I want that notion soundly rejected by fandom now and never heard from again.

Note also that the story about omegaverse Nazis can perhaps be accused of anti-Semitism. From a group clamoring to save us from racism, that's mission creep. They're already acting like any variety of ickyness that offends them should go.

DA

Past promises are irrelevant to whether the AO3 should be doing the things this group is lobbying for.

Giving anyone censorship powers over the archive is a disaster waiting to happen. Fandom collectively accomplished a tremendous victory by sticking to its guns despite attempts to emotionally blackmail everyone with the hypothetical possibility of child harm. What's at stake has not changed.

When PoC are outing themselves in private to someone like the head of Dreamwidth, who has demonstrated her commitment to the quality of fandom space with years of work, but they don't want to address the entire community and say "Stitch attacked and humiliated me. She in no way represents what I want, and EndOTWRacism is a sham" and risk a very public pile-on, that's evidence of an intimidation problem. It's staring everyone in the face. And that's exactly what the PoCs admitting in the anon meme that Stitch bullied them are saying.

Fics that the EndOTWRacism group declares are racist do not make the AO3 offensive to people of color. But the fact that other fans are scared to challenge a bully just because they think she is more oppressed than them (or just hate having to interact with her accusations and her followers) makes the space more unpleasant and stressful for everyone, PoC included.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #6020 ]

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject