fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #900 ]

[ SECRET POST #900 ]

⌈ Secret Post #900 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

101.

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102.

[Scrubs]

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103.

[Daniel Radcliffe & Tom Felton]

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104.

[Phantom of the Opera]

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105.

[Vampire Knight, Twilight]

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106.

[Fallout 3]

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107.

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108.

[Trek/SPN]

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109.

[Little Shop of Horrors]

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110.

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111.

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112.

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113.

[Pushing Daisies]

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114.

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115.

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116.

[Total Eclipse]

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117.

[Prison Break]

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118.

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119.

[MGS, FLCL]

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120.

[ReBoot]

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121.

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122.

[Super Junior]

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123.

[Producing Parker]

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124.

[LotR]

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125.

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126.

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127.

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128.

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129.

[FF9]

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130.

[Stephen Fry]

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131.

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132.

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133.

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134.

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135.

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136.

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137.

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138.

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140.

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141.

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142.

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143.

[Constantine]

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144.

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145.

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146.

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147.

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148.

[Hourou Musuko]

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149.

[Red Dragon]

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150.

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151.

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153.

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154.

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155.

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156.

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157.

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158.

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159.

[Secret Diary of a Call Girl]

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160.

[Stephen Colbert]

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161.

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162.

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164.

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175.

[NCIS]

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177.

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180.

[LOST]

Notes:

Sorry for the earliness.

Secrets Left to Post: 09 pages, 207 secrets from Secret Submission Post #129.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

That's all very interesting, and you bring up some fine points, but the fact remains that referring to a heterosexual relationship as slash-like is still sexist. No matter what the intent or the logic beyond the description, slash depicts a relationship between two men, and a heterosexual relationship includes a woman. Comparing the relationship between a man and a woman to that of two men, as though a relationship between two men is the default standard for equality - because that is how it reads, regardless of the intent - is no less offensive than defining a homosexual relationship by heteronormative terms as though they are the default standard.

That's all very interesting, and you bring up some fine points, but the fact remains that referring to a heterosexual relationship as slash-like is still sexist.

I don't understand this. Recently, I fell in love with a het pairing that reminded me of the dynamics in slash, specifically in terms of gender having nothing to do with it. I even described it as "het, with a slash dynamic", so it's like I understand the words you're saying, but they don't make any sense to me. You're not the first person that has said that slash is misogynistic for "erasing women" or that to compare the two is offensive, but I think it's really just a matter of the wires being hopelessly crossed.

You're right, you don't understand. That's not what she's saying at all. Stop putting words in her mouth.

At no point did I describe slash as misogynistic, nor did I insinuate that it "erases women". What I said was that to categorize a male/female relationship by the standards of a male/male relationship is as backwards and offensive as categorizing a homosexual relationship by heterosexual standards.

I also need to point out that heterosexual relationships do exist, both in real life and in the media and fanworks, wherein gender has nothing to do with the dynamics or equality of the relationship.

I also need to point out that heterosexual relationships do exist, both in real life and in the media and fanworks, wherein gender has nothing to do with the dynamics or equality of the relationship.

Well, yes, because I just pointed out one that I enjoyed. But the type of dynamic I'm talking about is found with greater frequency in slash. It's not impossible to find in het, but it is the reason I find myself attracted to slash.

Well, that speaks to an unfortunate trend in the het in your fandoms, but either way, I think it would be better for the advancement of equality if we could all agree to just refer to it as an equal relationship and leave it at that.

I'm confused as to which part of my comment seems to be causing you consternation, because you quoted all of it, for...some reason. It seems to make sense to me.

I was originally going to respond, but this is about the point that the conversation seems to be taking place in completely different languages, so I thought it was best to just give up.

I read het, I love het, but I understand that the dynamics therein are usually different from slash. I like it when slash relationships reflect the things I like in my het relationships, and I like it when het reflects the things I like in my slash relationships--but very often those things are different.

If that's horrifically offensive, so be it.

O...kay. That's not what the point is, so yeah, two different languages. You're right. The point was that the terminology is offensive by nature of implication, no matter what you want it to mean.

The point was that the terminology is offensive by nature of implication, no matter what you want it to mean.

Okay, are you maybe trying to say it's offensive because you think it puts slash as something "above" het, as though het is naturally inferior and only when it is "slash-like", does it achieve equality?

Yes. Because that is the meaning the term conveys, and if you have to spend twenty comments explaining that that isn't what you mean when you said it, you might want to consider that it isn't the best term to express your sentiment.

I know what you mean by it. You've given your explanation. It's just not really adequate to dispel the inherent bias in the words.

Yes. Because that is the meaning the term conveys

No. That is the meaning the term conveys to you. To someone like me, who instantly grasped the concept, I had to struggle with what you were finding offense with in the term itself, which is frustrating to me because I don't think of myself as stupid or insensitive.

"Slash-like het" just means het that is like slash, whatever the term slash means to you. To me, slash confers a sense of "gender blindess" (equality is probably the wrong term, since, yes, that can certainly happen between any possible mixture of gender) that you don't usually get in fictional het relationships. Therefore I would assume that "slash-like het" is het that has a similar sense of gender-blindness, something that I really like and only rarely find in my fictional het. "Gender-blindness" doesn't make slash superior, it's just a trope.

I don't want to offend people, but that's sort of hard when the terms under question mean such different things to whoever is participating.

Okay! I guess I can live with that, but I am confused as to why you're commenting anonymously if you don't consider yourself stupid or insensitive. Not that it has anything to do with anything; it's just a pet peeve. I don't understand why people do that.

See, you can't claim gender 'blindness' when you're basing the pairing on gender. I find this to be a rather hypocritical stance-When it comes to slash, the two males are just 'acting like they are', but if a woman is thrown into the equation, be it one or two, they are then labeled by their gender and not their character. The 'gender roles' in this situation are being put onto the characters by the person, and not the actual character.

In other words, you're making your own distinctions, thus you can not claim this to be a 'trend', since you dismiss the female characters yourself.

I can see why you're saying it, but it's untrue. The thing is, is that in reality it isn't 'genders' but archetypes, which every gender-genre has. There's nothing wrong with liking a certain mix, but to claim that your tastes are more 'unbiased' than others is offensive, just as it would be if someone said het-like slash was about 'gender blindness'

See, you can't claim gender 'blindness' when you're basing the pairing on gender.

I'm not. There you go.

Seeing as how most slash-only fans stick to slash because they like two men together, I'd have to say-Sorry, but you're not the majority of your prefered genre.

Seeing as how most slash-only fans stick to slash because they like two men together, I'd have to say-Sorry, but you're not the majority of your prefered genre.

We're talking about me, not the "majority of my preferred genre", which I didn't even say I preferred. Why are you judging me based on a generalized whole? It's like me claiming all het-only fans are homophobic just because I've run across some that are.

Great frequency in slash? I beg to differ.

Great frequency in slash? I beg to differ.

You don't even know what dynamic I'm specifically referring to. It's a highly antagonistic rivalry that, yes, is usually found between men and men. So, yeah, "beg to differ" all you want, doesn't mean you're right.

Wow, apparantly you've never heard of hate!ships. (And sorry to burst your bubble, but slash doesn't hold the monopoly on rival ships either)

And sorry to burst your bubble, but slash doesn't hold the monopoly on rival ships either

Apparently you have trouble with reading comprehension. Slash has more of those things, not a monopoly. Male/Female rivals are relatively rare, in slash, they're common as dirt.

That's all I'm saying.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #900 ]

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