fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #6076 ]

[ SECRET POST #6076 ]

⌈ Secret Post #6076 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05. https://i.imgur.com/gXjmv5P.png
[Shin Megami Tensei II, OP marked for nudity]

__________________________________________________

06. [SPOILERS for Pathfinder: Kingmaker]

__________________________________________________

07. [SPOILERS for Marvel Secret Invasion]

__________________________________________________

08. [SPOILERS for Marvel Secret Invasion]

__________________________________________________

09. [SPOILERS for Amatsutsumi]

__________________________________________________

10. [WARNING for discussion of pedophilia, suicide]

__________________________________________________

11. [WARNING for discussion of pedophilia]

__________________________________________________

12. [WARNING for discussion of suicide]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #868.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

12. [WARNING for discussion of suicide]
https://i.imgur.com/8fZsbVl.png

I'm surprised the only options to you seem to be "areas full of asshole men" and "women or nb! only! spaces! no men/boys allowed!"

Have you looked around recently, or are you not interested in something in between that is openly inclusive and respectful of, but not exclusive to, women and gender minorities? Because a lot of those "women and nonbinaries" groups aren't exclusive.

Plus I find that groups who openly tag themselves with that sort of description are both friendlier and politer social circles in general and have the added benefit of automatically deflecting assholes who think basic politeness like respecting pronouns is "dumb and for snowflakes" - which is great, because if they're fine with ignoring basic politeness about one extremely easy thing, they're usually the type to ignore it for anything else they want, too (like telling people to kill themselves), and nobody wanted to talk to assholes anyway.

Unless this secret is just an excuse to rant about women and gender minorities wanting spaces for themselves, which it kinda sounds like, but I'm trying to be optimistic here

Here's the thing, 'women and non-binaries only' spaces are NOT safe spaces for all gender minority people. For a lot of non-binary people, it's hurtful to be assumed 'woman lite'. Non-binary people who look or sound more masculine, as well as trans women, will often be excluded, sometimes harangued or harassed, for trying to access a space that CLAIMS it will welcome them. And, of course, trans men might have spent YEARS in a women/women-and-nonbinary space only to be kicked out at a point in their transition where they *can't* safely move in men's spaces.

The problem isn't that women and gender minorities want their own spaces, the problem is that those spaces are not always safe for all of us. And a lot of the people who have issues with those spaces ARE people who respect pronouns-- we just also need to have our own identities respected, and not every group is actually prepared to respect nonbinary people, or even all women, just because they claim to be for them.

Everything in this comment is arguing against things I never said; I started pointing out line by line things I never said or implied, but it ended up the entire response. So I don't know how to respond to this.

I said I wouldn’t join a group that didn’t allow men. You responded with a post about groups that allow men, and you phrased it as if I was also criticizing those groups. If you want people to extend you charity and not put words in your mouth, please don’t put words in my mouth.

Nah, I asked you a clarifying question, have you looked for inclusive groups? And listed my experience with such inclusive groups regarding keeping out typical cis male gamer bros. Your secret text didn't mention them at all, but if you are open to inclusive groups and you've found one that suits you, great!

Or if the secret was just an excuse to rant about women and nb only spaces, then my post was in vain because I wasn't ranting about those spaces, or interested in that topic.

Then anon responded by informing me that all women and nonbinaries groups aren't necessarily safe, which was very confusing and had nothing to do with anything I said, so...

Honestly, there’s a part of me that’s afraid of being “caught” no matter who you hate. I once accidentally made a guy think I was an undercover DEA agent because I didn’t want to murder DEA agents like he did. Even though I’m not cis, if I was in a group that kept out “typical cis male gamer bros,” there’s still a part of me that would be afraid of eventually being put in front of the Circular Firing Squad because I did or said something that only “cis male gamer bros” do or say. (That’s how it went for Isabel Fall, after all.)

That's kinda why I asked if you've looked around or found a place that suits you, because yeah, it does take looking around.

And for me at least, it's very much about how it's handled and how it's approached: I think it's fine to exclude "typical cis male gamer bros" with the understanding that cis+male+gamer bro is a very specific combination that lends itself to a particularly common flavor of bigoted asshole, not that cisness or maleness in itself is a bad thing (and lots of cis male people who happen to play games who aren't "typical cis male gamer bros" would agree with this). Also whether it's positioned as "we hate these people" or "we don't want to interact with them because of their behavior/attitudes"

ngl, the last few women and nonbinary groups I had joined had been fairly awful - just with a lot of ideas that rubbed me the wrong way; like how bad cis men were, but trans men were fine - and not seeing why a trans man having to out themselves out for their approval is not the greatest thing. Also members I was getting to know turning out to be terfs were the final straws for the last two; so now I just steer clear of places like that.

*shrug* I'm in a couple of women and non-binary only groups for a couple of my interests and it's pretty great. I'm in the "general" (predominantly male) groups for those interests as well, and while they're mostly fine, I definitely prefer the women and non-binary only groups overall, and am grateful for their existence--which is an extremely common sentiment I see expressed by the members of those groups.

To each their own, but calling them "horrible" makes it seem like you have quite a strong bias, and also, it kind of seems like the purpose of this secret is mostly just to shit on the existence of such groups. And if that IS the purpose of this secret, then...stay mad, I guess.

I HIGHLY doubt that the F!S consensus years ago was that you "deserved" to be suicide baited. However, you seem like you tend to have a pretty ungenerous view of things that don't perfectly align with your personal notion of how they should be, and you also seem to have a knack for antagonizing others as a default communication mode, so it seems entirely on-brand that you would've managed to antagonize the good-intentioned F!Sers of that bygone thread, and then convinced yourself that their increasing annoyance with you in that thread was tantamount to them saying you deserved to be suicide baited.

Basically anything I could say has been said here: https://medium.com/@jencoates/i-am-a-transwoman-i-am-in-the-closet-i-am-not-coming-out-4c2dd1907e42

da

That piece is so sad, I've read it before and it really moved me. I can relate to the author.

Respondents here are totally definitely selling me on "women and nonbinaries" being a real good signal of an asshole-free zone. Besides, what idiot would think men deserve asshole-free experiences anyway?

Anyone is free to make their own exclusive fan/hobby/interest group any time they want, based on whatever criteria they want. No one group interferes with anyone else's ability to make their own group.

Now if you want to create an "asshole-free" group, good luck with that. None of the women and enby only groups I've ever seen or been in have ever claimed to be asshole free, so I'm not sure why you're conflating men-free with asshole-free, but if you want to try to make one, that's totally your prerogative.

I mean, if you go into a women and non-binary space and start "innocently pointing out" to everyone there that spaces like theirs aren't necessarily safe and suggesting that its members are prone to acting with hostility, you... probably are going to be met with hostility.

Groups like that can be really toxic. Sometimes there is an attitude of being incapable of predatory or assholeish behavior just because you aren't a guy. That shit is stupid and I've seen it used by some pretty scary abusive women to minimize their antics until it couldn't stay hidden anymore due to the sheer scale of things getting out of hand— in what started as a female gamer group too, though I won't get more specific than that. I agree with other comments as well, sometimes there can be a lot of gender policing and unspoken rules about "what kind of nonbinary person" and "what kind of woman" is actually welcome in the group.

That said, I wouldn't say that woman and nonbinary groups are inherently awful at all (I took that as an emotional choice of words rather than necessarily literal though), some groups having toxic dynamics doesn't make every group suck, just like it would be odd to say men's groups and all-gender groups are universally terrible due to the bad ones. So I don't intend this comment as against the existence of such groups, just wanted to say... I've felt super uncomfortable in a lot of spaces like that, super unwelcome, I think I get where you're coming from OP and why you might be more comfortable in an all-gender group. I hope you're eventually able to find more chill gaming groups that feel right to you.

Cool cool, you do you. I, personally, find places that exclude men to be really calming. I don't have an opinion on "Women and NB only" so much as I just like "Women Focused Spaces" and the NB folks can decide if they want to associate with any particular group like the fully capable human adults they are.

Not going to lie though, you seem *really* unpleasant about this topic in a way I can't quit put my finger on and don't care to think about any more.

This exactly! Well said!

It's unpleasant because they're acting like a Pick Me. "Men, please accept me in your groups, I'm not horrible like women and other nonbinaries!"

groups with defined membership do so to avoid the burden and controversy of investigating each individual potential member for "are you gonna be cool if the group focuses on X and associated X things, including complaining about marginalized experiences if marginalization is the unifying theme", for good or for ill, and i think it makes perfect sense to avoid those groups if you're not comfortable with that, but i do it's weird to suggest having spaces that avoid conflict around the unifying theme, to avoid harm to the membership, is not a useful or understandable goal, how ineptly realized. i think that mentality is not dealing with the reality of the internet.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #6076 ]

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

OP

Re: OP

OP again

Re: OP again

no subject

no subject

OP

Re: OP

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject