fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #6099 ]

[ SECRET POST #6099 ]

⌈ Secret Post #6099 ⌋

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Well, you are misunderstanding a lot.

Essentially I get that the point is to make "gender" lose all meaning.

It is absolutely not the point. And if you look a little bit past kids' silly trans headcanons that they make for fun, you will find nobody in the trans community saying gender is determined by how feminine or masculine you are, and in fact it is extremely the opposite. You can be a trans woman who is butch -- that's fine! You can be a trans man who is femme -- that's fine! Anything extremely gender-conforming or in-between is fine too! In fact, it's mainly "concerned," "on the fence" people like yourself who are pushing traditional gender roles by saying you don't have to be trans just because you're a tomboy, you can just be a tomboy (ignoring that the point is not that the person thinks he's a boy because he likes boy things, he likes boy things because he's a boy and lots of boys like boy things whether they're cis or trans) but then turn and say about another person who is girly and AFAB, "why would you even be a trans guy if you're just going to act like a girl" (answer: because guys can also be "girly" no matter whether they're cis or trans).

Gender is not at all important to some people and very important to others, and both types of people are valid. We do not want gender to lose all meaning because of the people it is important to, but it is fine if gender loses all meaning to another individual in regards to themselves.

I mean, to put it more simply: trans people enforce gender stereotypes to the extent that society enforces gender stereotypes. A lot of trans girls are going to like girly things for the exact same reason a lot of cis girls are going to like girly things. Because they're taught, "These are the things girls like, so if you're a girl, you'll like them." The trans community, however, also has a much higher ratio of people who recognize these gender stereotypes for what they are and how they are separate from gender.

AYRT - Okay, and can you tell me why exactly gender stereotypes are separate from gender I mean, shouldn't the "gender" part in "gender stereotypes" imply they're related? If not stereotypes, then what IS "gender" anyways? Not trying to be aggressive, honestly confused.

What you're saying makes sense because when you say "[...] nobody in the trans community saying gender is determined by how feminine or masculine you are" you are already using words that most people (consciously or not) associate with biological sex to define things, ie. "masculine" or "feminine". So no matter how I look at it, it doesn't seem to me like there's nothing new in what you're saying. And your second reply is saying... basically that, so I get what you're saying.

But my opinion is basically - if there is nothing different from the way society treats "gender" generally, then... why should it matter to me? If it was about abolishing gender at the end of it then I guess there would be a reason at least, even if the ways are a bit problematic as I see them but if you're not making it any differently from the rest of society, ... you know, it seems kinda redundant to me or silly even.

When you say you understand that gender is important for some people and you don't necessarily want to abolish it, it makes me think that you want a future where people keep being assigned roles, personality traits, perspectives based on what sex they are born into. Which I REALLY don't, and according to some this makes me a radical feminist which in turn makes me automatically a "TERF" according to some kids on the internet.

However I don't really understand why, fundamentally, my wish - that no one is assigned anything based on sex - would hurt anyone. If you want to be "traditionally (whatever my biological sex was assigned)" that's fine. If you don't that's also fine. And I don't really get why "not having an opinion" is problematic or why it should mean I personally feel anything negative towards trans* individuals. What I don't get is the aspect that leads them to fit into that discourse. Otherwise, people are people, there are good and bad trans* people like anything else. And I think being AFAB shaped my life in some ways but otherwise? Why should I pick a label.. that would define... what?

Honestly I think there is some experience I am missing fundamentally when it comes to this topic because I had the privilege of growing up in a home environment where my sex didn't matter and despite living in a transphobic society I (seldom talk about this because it gives 'I am not homophobic because I have gay friends' vibes but) think most of my friends from my teen years were/are trans (a chunk were crossdressers and the ones I saw recently now self-id as nb) so it was obvious growing up that people feel wildly different things about this gender stuff. The logical conclusion would be a future where people don't have to be bound by it AT ALL, but it didn't happen...? So my personal feelings are just a big "eh" (but my fandoms have too many kids and specifically too many trans* kids so it's an issue)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #6099 ]

Re: What are your controversial non-fandom opinions?

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