fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #6147 ]

[ SECRET POST #6147 ]

⌈ Secret Post #6147 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[A Practical Guide to Evil]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 32 secrets from Secret Submission Post #879.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

What makes it not a strawman?

AYRT

A strawman is an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

This was a) not an intentionally misrepresented proposition, but rather a point of how some people define "politics in fandom," like making Hermoione black, or Steve Rogers trans. There have been a LOT of takes that doing that is shoving their politics into fandom.

a.2) I do understand that they're most likely talking about the Palestinian genocide, given the use of the phrase "certain conflicts", but I choose to focus on the much wider phrase "keep politics out of fandom spaces" because that is inherently unreasonable. Humans are political creatures. There will always be politics, no matter what we do. Try going to a knitting circle sometime.

and b) not easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument, because it was, in fact, referent to their base thesis that politics in fandom spaces is bad. Therefore their conclusion about "conflicts" is already flawed. Who gets to decide what is politics? Usually it's the privileged, because everyone Not Them are inherently political. God forbid the Palestinian writing a fanfic mention in her latest author's note that she's under bombardment and may never get to finish her fic.

I'm sure everyone not of the dominant political paradigm would like to use fandom spaces to rest, as well. Doesn't work really well if people are yelling that they need to keep "politics" out of fandom, and your very existence is considered political.

A strawman would be if I said that they were arguing that fandom should never have anything political in it at all, real world or not, and West Wing is the worst offender!

You could, however, argue that what I said was an ad hominem, and I would accept that.

Except the commenter you replied to never stated that the comment above was a strawman, they just gave a reply to the complete asspull above it by making a baseless assumption of their own.

And I know you're trying very hard to sound smart but geez. There was no "base thesis that politics in fandom is bad", nor was there a "conclusion" of any kind. It's not that deep.
And your Plaestinian fanfic author? Yep, that's definitely a strawman. Because that's not what this is about and you KNOW it.

And your Plaestinian fanfic author? Yep, that's definitely a strawman. Because that's not what this is about and you KNOW it.

That's... that's also not a strawman. That's called a hypothetical.

No, I don't know it because OP didn't say what they meant when they said "certain conflicts." I even said that in my comment above where I said "most likely." Cause, you know, I'm not gonna assume what OP actually means. I'm just gonna react to what they wrote. As far as I know OP thinks that if that hypothetical were real it would be both political and a shitty take. I've seen worse reactions to less form actual Israeli government officials, so go off.

So, going off what OP actually wrote, they include a few assumptions:
1) The idea that fandom spaces are only for "fanfic and novel translations" and I'll throw fanart and meta and all that other fannish activity in there to be generous to OP (i.e. not a strawman).

2) Politics are by their very nature antithetical to fandom, or distract from fandom, or ruin the enjoyment of fandom, so politics should be kept out of fandom.

Therefore: People in fandom shouldn't talk about current political events, or talk about their political positions, or do fundraisers for politicians, or organize boycotts, etc etc etc. because it will upset a certain segment of the fandom community.

I disagree with both premises but I chose to only argue against one.

Also, smart people don't accuse others of trying to sound smart, cause that's kinda projection there, bud. They only interact with the subject matter. Or occasionally call someone an asshole.

You're gonna react to what they wrote by likening them to Israeli officials.

And yes, yes, I know. You phrased it very carefully so that you can say, "but I didn't literally say that!"

You are not a serious person.

🙄

I just searched the thread by Ukr and then Isr and lo an behold the Ukrainian conflict is out of fashion. Israely one is on the forefront.

Not out of fashion, just... you know... less urgent than a genocide.

The strawman was "you just want to silence poor Palestinian fanfic authors who mention they're getting bombed in their author's notes", stop playing coy. OP also didn't say that fandom "is only for", they said "it's what I want to see". And if we're being pedantic, OP also never said that people aren't allowed to post about politics, it's just that they wish they didn't.

No... It was pointing out a hypothetical where a person in fandom makes a completely innocuous note in their fic, and some person would complain that it's being political. Because I HAVE seen people call stuff like that politics. I wasn't suggesting that OP has that position, merely that saying "keep politics out of fandom spaces" is way to broad and generalized to be of any use and by using that phrase you sound like the people who are so sensitive as to call the mere existence of black people political. Please. Please start actually understanding what the text you're reading says.

"I'm not saying OP thinks this, but it wouldn't be surprising if they did!"

Give me a break. Everyone can see through your weasel words. You're just this side of JAQing off.

I'm pointing out how their statement is too broad. It's like when you go out on a date and the person says they're "not political". Red Flag. Red Flag.

You, on the other hand, need to know that OP won't fuck you.

NAYRT

Honestly I'd suggest just not replying any more; you've made your points clear and the people replying to you are invested in not understanding them. It's not worth the time or effort to try to make them read or to point them back to the text of the secret because it's really obvious they don't want to consider it and therefore futile.

Probably they'll reply to this comment a few times pretending to be multiple people or something but w/e, they're not getting a reply and can be mad about it, lol.

True facts. Honestly, at this point, I'm using this to test out new snarky replies. I have no investment in anything they say. And I hope they die mad about it.

If you don't care about the replies, then what is the point of the test?

Purely masturbatory.

How I feel the snark looks in text format. These people have already shown they have no reading comprehension, so it's not like they'll react like a rational person. They're not gonna give me valid data in any event.

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Right. So you are setting up strawmen.

AYRT: *writes a whole essay on how it's not a strawman*

You: *refuses to read or understand it and just says it again, ironically making a strawman argument*

Me: *looks into the camera like The Office*

You wrote a whole essay on how you're assuming the OP made a particular argument, and then responding to the argument you assume they made.

And yes, yes, you've now made another essay about how this doesn't count, because you know you're making assumptions! But that doesn't change the fact that all of your arguments are against those assumptions.

Comment OP used the text of the secret. Did you read the secret? Cause it says in the text "I really wish people would keep politics out of fandom spaces".

Show me on the doll where that mean logic touched you.

I did read the secret. It doesn't say anything about Black people or Palestine, which is what comment OP is arguing about.

Tbf, it very likely references the Palestine conflict but that "black people" comment was such an dumb random asspull that I'd actually call troll.

Oh noes, someone disagrees with you. Better call them a troll to make yourself feel better.

Bitch it was troll comment. Don't be so gullible.