fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #6153 ]

[ SECRET POST #6153 ]

⌈ Secret Post #6153 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

All secrets today have spoiler/content warnings attached.

__________________________________________________

01. [SPOILERS for Slay the Princess]

__________________________________________________

02. [SPOILERS for Pact]

__________________________________________________

03. [SPOILERS for Final Fantasy 16]

__________________________________________________

04. [SPOILERS for Our Flag Means Death]

__________________________________________________

05. [WARNING for discussion of violence, transphobia, abuse, child abuse; Ezra Miller]

__________________________________________________

06. [WARNING for discussion of RL war/genocide/etc]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #879.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

No apartheid state can be a democracy. Israel is an apartheid state. They're not a democracy. They're not inclusive.

Israel =/= Jews. Israel refuses to allow non-white Jews "right of return" even when they're being persecuted because they're Jews in their own country. They're an ethno-supremacist terrorist state.

And no, they can't have one country when having that country means conducting a genocide on the people they stole most of their land from.

TLDR: Israel are not the "victims" here.

Netanyahu's government has taken some steps that could lead to an apartheid state, and should be opposed. But as it currently is, non-Jews can become citizens, and have full rights under the law when they do, including the right to vote.

Are people of MENA descent considered white?

What does it mean to have "stolen" the land? Whose land is it, really? Is there a statute of limitations on that? If modern-day Palestinians are driven from the land, and in 2000 years they'd like to come back, will we say, "no, you are stealing this?

That's always the tough question when it comes to the history of conquest and colonialism, right? How far back should we go to decide who the real "owner" of the land is? And what do we do with all of the people who've lived on that land in the interim?

Speaking of people who have lived in the area in the interim, what should be done about the Misrahi Jews that were living in the area all along? Do they have a right to be there?

While the treatment of people in Gaza and the West Bank is terrible, I don't think it's properly understood as a genocide.

Netanyahu's government has taken some steps that could lead to an apartheid state,

Could lead? It's been there a while. See Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/
https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

What does it mean to have "stolen" the land? Whose land is it, really? Is there a statute of limitations on that? If modern-day Palestinians are driven from the land, and in 2000 years they'd like to come back, will we say, "no, you are stealing this?

Are people living on the land when you forcibly enter their houses, kill their families, burn their crops, destroy entire villages that have been there for decades if not hundreds of years? Then that, my friend, is stealing land.

While the treatment of people in Gaza and the West Bank is terrible, I don't think it's properly understood as a genocide.

Here are the stages of genocide:

I. Classification

ii. Symbolization

iii. Discrimination

iv. Dehumanization

v. Organization

vi. Polarization

vii. Preparation

viii. Persecution <--- Israel is somewhere

ix. Extermination <--- between here.

x. Denial

So... what, you wanna wait until the Denial stage before calling it genocide?

Are people living on the land when you forcibly enter their houses, kill their families, burn their crops, destroy entire villages that have been there for decades if not hundreds of years? Then that, my friend, is stealing land.

Then there is no one on that land who hasn't stolen it, which is the entire point. It has been the sight of one conquest after another for 2000 years. Whose land is it, anon? Who, of all the groups that have lived on it and fought one another for it, is most deserving of it? Who is the most innocent?

You have not answered whether people of MENA descent are white, nor have you answered whether Misrahi Jews, who have "been there for decades if not hundreds of years" are allowed to be there. Is it their land, or do they not count?

So... what, you wanna wait until the Denial stage before calling it genocide?

No, because this is incendiary nonsense. Attacking a group that you are at war with is not genocide.

You know what probably is, though? Attacking a group that you've declared yourself to be dedicated to wiping off the face of the earth, no matter where they live. Guess who did that?

Then there is no one on that land who hasn't stolen it, which is the entire point. It has been the sight of one conquest after another for 2000 years. Whose land is it, anon? Who, of all the groups that have lived on it and fought one another for it, is most deserving of it? Who is the most innocent?

So, what, it's okay to keep doing it because it's always been done that way? We know better now. We know this does not help anything. We knew that in the 1940s, which is why the UN told Israel that they were going to have their own state next to Palestine. And then Israel immediately turned around and started stealing Palestinian land. Palestinians call it the Nakba, and it started in 1948. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba)

As for whose land it is - It's the Palestinians land. You can see the map of where Israeli land was in 1948 and how much Palestinian land has been stolen.

You have not answered whether people of MENA descent are white, nor have you answered whether Misrahi Jews, who have "been there for decades if not hundreds of years" are allowed to be there. Is it their land, or do they not count?

I don't care. I don't give a shit. MENA and Misrahi Jews are not the ones sequestering Palestinians into outdoor prisons and then bombing them. Israel is. Israel is only a religious state when it benefits them to use it as cover for their crimes. Israel does not give a shit about Jews qua Jews. It only cares about it's own power. A two state solution would reduce Israeli power in the region, so it uses it's religion as an excuse. It's all a distraction from the fact that Israel is, right now, killing thousands of Palestinians while claiming it's for the purpose of getting to ONE Hamas leader. They want the land. They want to control the entirety of Palestine, and they don't care if it happens by forcing the Palestinians out or by killing them all.

No, because this is incendiary nonsense. Attacking a group that you are at war with is not genocide.

They're not attacking a group that they're at war with. You need to have two sides for a war. Hamas is supported by Israel (https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/). Palestine has no real government, they haven't had elections in almost two decades. They have no real way to fight back against Israel, otherwise they would have done it decades ago when Israel shoved them into the 21st century ghetto.

This is not a war, it's a massacre.

You know what probably is, though? Attacking a group that you've declared yourself to be dedicated to wiping off the face of the earth, no matter where they live. Guess who did that?

Israel's actions are making antisemitism worse. They claim to speak for Jews, and then do shit like this. It makes people already susceptible to antisemitism equate Israel's indiscriminate bombing and murder of women and children with Jewishness. Israel doesn't get to use antisemitism as a defense. Israel is an enemy of Jews.

Israel left Gaza back in 2006. Blame Hamas for everything after that. Speak to some Palestinians that live there. They're not allowed to say what they want to say about Hamas.

Israel left Gaza back in 2006.

No...??? I mean, yeah, technically, if you want to say that Israel stopped occupying Gaza, but Israel controls almost all water, food, internet, and PEOPLE coming into and out of Gaza. They shoot Palestinians who even wander near the border. I wouldn't exactly calling that "leaving."

Blame Hamas for everything after that.

The Hamas that Israel supports? Cause I'm gonna blame Israel for that. Just like I'm gonna blame the US for supporting Israel.

Speak to some Palestinians that live there. They're not allowed to say what they want to say about Hamas.

This is true. This is why I hate it when people say that all the Palestinians being killed is justified because of Hamas. That they brought it on themselves because of what Hamas did. No. This is Israel going after the problem they created and they have publicly said that any number of Palestinian deaths is worth it. Because they don't see Palestinians as humans.

I wish everyone was better able to separate Hamas from the Palestinian people, the latter of whom is caught in the middle of a terrible conflict between religious extremists, and suffers deeply for it.

This. JFC.

hamas are the elected representatives of (a bunch of) the palestinian people and any negotiation for peace with palestine will involve negotiating with hamas

and when their starting position is "we want all the jews dead and israel off the map then maybe we'll talk about peace" it's kinda difficult to get anywhere

Hamas was "elected" with the support of Israel in 2006. Palestinians haven't had an election since. So, no. Hamas are not the elected representatives of any Palestinians.

When the starting position is "we'll kill all the Palestinians if we have to to get rid of Hamas who we have supported so that Palestine wouldn't have an actual government" it's kinda difficult to get anywhere.

there's nobody alive in palestine who was old enough and eligible to have cast a vote in 2006? yeah, i'm pressing x to doubt pretty damn hard here

the second paragraph - an oh you're so clever "no u"ing of my own - is precisely why the only solution to this conflict is a one state solution in which one side is victorious and the other side is dead

DA
I mean, sure there are very likely plenty of people in Palestine who are sympathizing with Hamas but you're kinda naiive if you think that an Islamist terror group getting elected by totally normal democratic means is in any way likely.

+infinity

lmao israel an apartheid state. it's not like south africa was. get a grip.

Not all apartheid states are going to be the same, because the circumstances are different. Read a book. There are links up there to show that Israel is in fact an apartheid state. Unless you think you're more of an expert than Amnesty International and the Human Rights Watch? Because, lmao.

Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch do have their biases, though.

Human Rights Watch has long faced criticism, including from its own founder, about its selective approach, e.g. its reluctance to call out human rights abuses in non-Western countries; and its credulousness when gathering accounts from witnesses on whichever side they support. They have a tendency not to fact-check eyewitness statements, and to not take opposing testimony into account.

When it comes to Israel, Amnesty classifies all Arabs living in the country as "Palestinian," regardless whether they actually are Palestinian or identify that way, and have used that classification to conflate all Israeli Arabs (and Palestinians who are Israeli citizens) with Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza. The "apartheid" label relies on this, as it makes it look as if a 5th of the population is denied rights based on ethnicity or religion, when that isn't actually true. Does this mean that the treatment of people in the West Bank and Gaza is good, or justified? Absolutely not! But it does shift the issue from a matter of ethnicity/religion to a matter of location, as a Palestinian living in East Jerusalem enjoys rights that a Palestinian in Gaza does not. And when members of the group that are said to be denied rights are able to vote and sit in parliament, it complicates the picture.

The apartheid label does not rely on conflating all Arabs, regardless of citizenship. Apartheid refers to the implementation and maintenance of a system of legalized racial segregation in which one racial group is deprived of political and civil rights. Palestinians living in East Jersusalem do NOT enjoy the same rights as Israelis living in the same place. All Palestinians are second class at best, if citizens at all. Just because some of them have a right to vote doesn't mean they're not discriminated against - that they're not deprived of political and civil rights as a group.

There are over 65 laws in place that discriminate directly or indirectly against Palestinian citizens in Israel and Palestinian residents of the OPT. A 2010 report by the US State Department documented similar issues of “institutional, legal, and societal discrimination”.

Palestinian political figures frequently face efforts by Israeli authorities and Jewish parliamentarians to limit their political rights. These include motions to disqualify Arab parties from running in the election; criminal indictments by police against Arab politicians for participating in demonstrations; and a new law allowing 80 Knesset members (out of 120) to expel their colleagues from the parliament, among others.

That is the definition of apartheid.

Go hang your head in shame, then hang yourself.

Please don't stoop to this level. Leave it to Tumblr Islamists. Death threats are not a good way to have a political discussion, even if your discussion partner is an idiot.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #6153 ]

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject