[ SECRET POST #6189 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6189 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 47 secrets from Secret Submission Post #885.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I am concerned about the growing number of people who are squicked out by the vagina. And it's one of those things that seems like it isn't supposed to be examined, on the grounds that people have "good/valid reasons" for their squick. But at the same time, we have all these conversations about socialization and social construction, about how this can lead to desire being filtered through the lenses of privilege and bigotry. For some reason, we don't want to apply that to a dislike of the vagina.

I feel there is a growing misogyny that dares not speak its name. We are encouraged to hate our female bodies; to hate other female bodies; to hate the female experience of sex; and to then treat this hatred as simply a preference that is purely individual in nature and cannot be questioned. The fact that there is not also a rise in the hatred of penises should be a damn good indicator that this is about how society views and treats female-bodied people.

[(Anonymous)]

... it doesn't have anything to do with that, though? It has to do with the fact that for a lot of trans people, surprise!trans fic can trigger their own personal dysphoria and ruin their day.

Like, one of my good friends is trans, and they're not comfortable reading smut fic involving ftm characters because it hits too close to home for them and their own personal situation. They're totally fine reading m/f fic and they have no issues with vaginas (they're straight), they just don't want to be reading fic that involves men with vaginas.

[(Anonymous)]

I have a hard time with broken previously-agreed-upon expectations. Like, the number one thing to cause an argument in my house is when we agree on what dinners on what nights, and then some night my wife isn't "feeling" a dinner and she makes something else and it just ruins everything for me. Like, almost melt down level. So when I read a fic that's labeled M/M, I am not expecting vagina. (And it IS always vagina. I've yet to find one where it's trans male with a removable dick going to town on his boyfriends asshole. It's always the ftm being penetrated if only one is trans.)

It's very jarring to have that expectation pulled out from under me like a rug. I would have the same problem with surprise dicks in F/F, but I've never run into that.

[(Anonymous)]

This seems like a reach. All OP is asking is for people to tag their fics properly, not for people to start hating vagina.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay THIS is a terf.

[(Anonymous)]

There are things that I don't want to be involved in real life and find unsexy. Vaginas are like this for me. End of story. I cannot imagine anything with them being sexy because to me that's a nuisance on my own body. It's an extreme turn down and even triggers thoughts that I'd rather not be dealing with when I want to read a purposedly sexy fic that I sought out.

Vaginal sex hits too close to home, ruins the purposedly sexy fic for me and immediately takes me out of the fic or artwork. Never hit the back button as hard as I tend to do when I read the word pussy or cunt.

[(Anonymous)]

That may be true in some cases, but it isn't always. Personally I'm bi. But I also have endometriosis and other issues that make touching my vagina painful. And reading about vaginal sex can trigger memories of that pain.

I love the female body. I just avoid reading about most vaginal sex.

[(Anonymous)]

I think you're unaware of how extremely normal and expected it is for straight cis men to be squicked -- no, revolted -- by penises. Much more common than it is for any woman to be expected to be squicked by vaginas. You just don't hear as many cishet men vomiting over having to read about a dick for one second because the fandom space we're all in has very few cishet men in it at all.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

That's not really the case, though? The vast majority of porn and erotica aimed at straight men is M/F and has penises in it. Yeah, a lot of guys like "lesbian porn," but if were "normal and expected" for men to be as revolted by dick as you think, that would be the vast majority of content instead of a niche.

As far as I can tell, the real difference is that men like imagining themselves in the porn they watch and read (the dick becomes their own dick), whereas women don't (women in fandom, anyway. This doesn't seem as common with women outside of fandom). Women in fandom tend not to want to imagine themselves anywhere near the scene, so they gravitate toward M/M.

DA

[(Anonymous)]

Isn't it natural to hate being oppressed though? I love my clit, but hate the idea of being vaginally penetrated because it drives home the point that nature has made me to be penetrated. Anally? Well, everyone has an asshole so it's not loaded in the same way. Bottoms are bottoms because of personal preference, not because they're a distinct biological class of humans designed for penetration. Unless you're talking ABO, of course.

NAYRT

[(Anonymous)]

I also hated the idea of being vaginally penetrated and still do, but I also hate that it's seen as nature's way of inherently oppressing half its living population. I've seen "vaginal penetration" reframed as "penal engulfment," and that's not even a new, forced idea; some men being squeamish about the vagina's ability to swallow their penis has been around from the beginning (see also "vagina dentata"). Genitals aren't inherently in the oppressed/oppressor or penetrated/penetrator mould.

Re: DA

[(Anonymous)]

Anally? Well, everyone has an asshole so it's not loaded in the same way.

This post wins.

[(Anonymous)]

Lol what a truckload of bullshit. Nobody owes you and your cunt sexual attraction, hun.

[(Anonymous)]

That's kind of a shitty way to read that.

[(Anonymous)]

It was a shitty post so it deserves a shitty reply.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know, it seems like it was shitty to you because you projected something onto it.

In any case, responding to someone who thinks something is sexist by using actual sexist language is kind of stupid in addition to being shitty. You added to their point rather than take away from it.

[(Anonymous)]

Nah, I love vaginas, just hate the way they're treated in bad fic and porn (which is, regrettably, most of it). If I have to imagine my own genitals in a smut experience, I'd better like what's happening. Not a problem when my genital type isn't being written about.

[(Anonymous)]

Wtf is female-bodied people?
Anyway.
I am going to answer in a good faith. It's anecdotal but for example my friend does not like vaginas in fics because all this fantasies do not match her experience and she can't get past her suspence of disbelief. I don't like reading about vaginas because I am ace and imagining things with similar to mine genitals results in "ehw do not want". Maybe for someone it is hatred of their body or misogyny. But it's not that deep. A lot of people just do not want to read about vaginas. But apparently a lot of do, at least they want to write

[(Anonymous)]

I've been in online fandom for 20+ years, and I haven't seen a rise in negative feelings about vaginas. What I have seen is an increase in the diversity of gender expression in fic. Twenty years ago, I didn't see a single fic starring trans or nonbinary characters. They probably existed somewhere, but I read literally thousands of fics a year and never came across one.

While now those fics are incredibly common in some fandoms, and in a growing number of canons as well. Which is really great in many respects, but which also means that people who previously could avoid fic involving vaginal sex simply by reading only m/m, are now having to navigate a more complex fannish landscape. Tagging can be a great way to help people navigate that landscape, but it's considerably less effective if authors don't tag for non-canonically trans characters and/or for specific sex acts that appear in their fic.