[ SECRET POST #6286 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6286 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #898.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Do you not understand that this kind of dismissal of any time something happens MAKES. US. LOOK. BAD.

It does not matter if it happens infrequently. It only has to happen ONCE, and for us to deny that it happened or say it's "less than worthless" that it happened, for it to make it look like we're perfectly fine with it, and that at a minimum we don't give a shit about anyone who was hurt by it. "It's not a problem that that girl was raped in the school bathroom, because that's just a case study." How do you think that sounds to people? To her parents? To her friends? To her?

What is so hard about saying, "yeah, those people are shitty, and they're also liars?" What is the point of jumping through all manner of hoops to avoid saying it? Who does it benefit?

[(Anonymous)]

It doesn't do anything other than make YOU look bad. You're trying to hard to claim this is a massive problem that needs to be addressed, but can't give me anything other than three instances. Three instances out of a population of 8 billion is NOT A PROBLEM.

Getting raped in a school bathroom happens WAY more often. Almost always cis girls being raped by cis boys who don't even bother to pretend that they're not cis. So, you know, pretending to be trans to go into a bathroom is statistically not a thing to worry about. Dudes will just walk on in there, no pretending needed. THAT is the problem.

The person jumping through hoops is you. If you actually cared about women you would ask yourself, What is the biggest problem women face? What is causing the most harm to women? How do I make the lives of the majority of women the most qualitatively better? And you do THAT through statistics.

"Well, my brother's girlfriend's cousin's best friend was attacked by a lion, so how dare you say lion attacks aren't a problem. How do you think that makes her feel??!" That's a case study, my dude. It ain't a problem.

If you have no statistics about cis dudes pretending to be trans then you haven't done the work, and you don't actually care about women. You care about finding reasons to hate trans people being treated with respect.

[(Anonymous)]

DA
I think you should re-read what op wrote because you're talking about different things and issues here. I don't think op is in that much in bad faith like you're envisioning them ("you don't actually care about women"? wow).
Your reply here really comes off as whataboutism

[(Anonymous)]

Not really. Their reply is whataboutism. The topic was using neo-pronouns and whether or not people are serious in their use or only insisting on them to gain attention. OP decided to bring in the false right wing narrative of trans people or cis men using the idea of trans people to assault women vs calling out annoying people, and which is better for the movement. Since one doesn't functionally exist, but we have many examples of the other, I requested stats that prove bathroom assaults by trans people, real or fake, are actually a problem worth considering. No stats were provided. I instead got case studies, which proves nothing other than such a thing happened thrice, and is thus not something worth arguing or worrying over. Thus our attentions should be focused on annoying assholes who want all non binary people to be called froi or whatever.

OP insisted that they gave me the information I asked for, which they did not. It was simple extrapolation from there. Anyone who pushes the TRANS PEOPLE ARE LIARS WHO WANT TO ASSAULT OUR WOMEN IN BATHROOMS narrative are right wingers arguing that women and womanhood must be protected, especially from non-existent threats of their own making. Such bathroom assaults statistically do not happen (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8022685/#B21; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8022685/#B27; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8022685/#B42;https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8022685/#B41). Receipts provided, because my position is actually backed up by science.

Since such assaults do not happen in any statistical significance, the argument that those should be the focus of community concern rather than neo-pronoun usage is invalid. Women are not protected by terfs or by insisting that trans people or cis men pretending to be trans should be banned from women's bathrooms (or jails). The only other reason than pearl clutching "protect (white) women" I can think of that OP would insist in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is a discomfort with or hated of trans people, and they have convinced themselves that since their imagined scenario has ever happened in the history of humankind it must therefore be an ongoing statistically significant problem that ought to be addressed even though no one can actually find evidence of such a claim. If there is a third option that would make OP seem less of a bigot, I am all ears.

DA

[(Anonymous)]

Neither of those should be a community concern because neither poses a significant issue for women or trans people ("neopronouns annoy me" is not a significant issue).

[(Anonymous)]

So if it isn't "statistically relevant", which could be caused by lack of information just the way we know rape statistics are all skewered given how little women felt/feel safe to go to the police about it and, in this case, could also be a result of too few alerts as opposed to occurrences, is the pain suffered by the "statistically irrelevant" women not important? Is it okay for them to be attacked while they don't suffer enough for you to believe them? Sorry, but any one case of this is already one case too much. If we're really arguing between how important it is for people to feel ~special about their fake words and the well-being of women of flesh and blood out there, even if it's "three" of them (just because you fail to care enough to see that there are a lot more cases doesn't mean these events are limited to the ones the anon you were talking to presented, as they themselves said they could go on — and they really could). So what, we just shrug it off until this violence becomes "bad enough" instead of acting preemptively? How many women being hurt is enough of a number for you to start caring?

Seriously, this isn't an us x them situation. I DO NOT want trans people to be assaulted, I DO NOT want them not to be able to access a basic need such as a toilet... But I also DO NOT want the price to pay for that to involve women getting hurt, even if it's "just three". Those "just three" have names, families and lives that can be ruined just the same as if they were three thousand or three million. They count, too.

[(Anonymous)]

"So if it isn't "statistically relevant", which could be caused by lack of information just the way we know rape statistics are all skewered"

For rape statistics to be skewed they have to exist in the first place. The stats I asked you for DON'T EXIST AT ALL. Ergo they cannot be skewed. Because they don't statistically happen. End of story.

"is the pain suffered by the "statistically irrelevant" women not important?"

Anon above who said it was whataboutism - here you go. "Protecting women"

AYRT. No. No their pain is not statistically important. Just like the hypothetical of being attacked by a lion. Not. Statically. Important. Other people have been attacked in the exact same way by other animals. You ain't special, thinking because YOU were attacked that you can get lions on a ban list. No.

"Is it okay for them to be attacked while they don't suffer enough for you to believe them?"

It's not about one person suffering enough. It's about the phenomenon happening enough to be a problem. A shit ton of people suffer malaria. It does not happen in the US in great numbers, ergo malaria in the US is not a problem. This doesn't mean that malaria is ok, or that the people who suffer from malaria aren't important. It means that it's stupid to focus on fighting malaria in the US.

"Sorry, but any one case of this is already one case too much"

Ok, so are you going to fight for all the other case studies where something horrible happened because of weird circumstances that almost never repeat? No, no you're fighting to make the lives of millions of people objectively WORSE because something happened once. One case is never too much. One case is basically NEVER. And the only reason you don't see that is because you have a personal bias against trans people. You're a bigot.

"(just because you fail to care enough to see that there are a lot more cases doesn't mean these events are limited to the ones the anon you were talking to presented, as they themselves said they could go on — and they really could)"

Where are they? I asked for stats. If there were "a lot more cases" there would be statistics you biggoted fuck.

"Seriously, this isn't an us x them situation. I DO NOT want trans people to be assaulted, I DO NOT want them not to be able to access a basic need such as a toilet..."

This is an us x them situation because you made it so. You DO want trans people to be assaulted. You DO want them to be unable to access basic needs. You want them murdered and raped in large numbers because the alternative is that a cis woman somewhere at some time might be raped by a cis dude pretending to be trans. Because one cis woman = 1000000000 trans women.

All the trans people who have been raped and murdered because of the restrictions placed on them for being trans had names, families and lives that can be ruined. They COUNT. And they're in greater numbers than the women you claim to want to protect.

Fuck you, you fucking fascist.