[ SECRET POST #6382 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6382 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 14 secrets from Secret Submission Post #912.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: It's weird, but I've noticed that Men Being Super Gross is a common relationship complaint.

[(Anonymous)]

Women are heavily socially penalized for not being completely clean at all times where any other person could possibly see them. I just recently read about a woman who was not hired for a job, and when she asked her recruiter what she could have done better she was told that they said she was slovenly. Her hair was professionally done, she had on a tailored suit, her nails were manicured. It's because she wasn't wearing make up. That was "slovenly" for a woman.

See also all the jokes in tv shows and movies about a man seeing a woman in private in her own home doing the her beauty routine and him being horrified about how bad she looks in face cream or without makeup. Compared with men being gross for a joke, and if a woman is horrified she's treated in the show/movie as a prude with no sense of humor.

It definitely leads to being clean, and put together, and well manicured being associated with femininity (see the metrosexual).

Re: It's weird, but I've noticed that Men Being Super Gross is a common relationship complaint.

[(Anonymous)]

I think in general, society's standards for appearance and cleanliness are higher for women. It's not that they don't exist for men, but IMO, standards are a bit more relaxed about slovenly dress, dirt, body odor, etc. because it's perceived as manly and therefore less stigma.

Re: It's weird, but I've noticed that Men Being Super Gross is a common relationship complaint.

[(Anonymous)]

I think people are more willing to excuse a man, say, at McDonald's on his lunch break who's dirty/smelly if he's wearing work clothes that indicate he's a manual laborer (same for a woman with no makeup in a ponytail covered in paint stains) or a person who obviously just did a run and is wearing running clothes.

But in an office setting? Dirty clothes and body odor are absolutely a stigma for both sexes. A coder can get away with being a slob if he works in a coder cave with a couple of other dudes, but he's NOT getting promoted into management if he's pigpen.

Re: It's weird, but I've noticed that Men Being Super Gross is a common relationship complaint.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I've known many women who were gross in most of the ways described above* but the relevant difference is none of them were women who were making any attempt to date men. All women know that if they want to attract men they can't be actively gross, and a great many men will happily remind them of this if they forget. Many men don't seem to ever learn the reverse, and women seem to let them get away with it

Also women - generally in my experience the most outwardly tidy ones - are way more likely to spray urine all over the toilet and not clean it up, but the ones who do that only do it in public restrooms where their men never have to deal with it, whereas men are most likely to do it at home.

*not so much the skidmarks, but women are way more likely to get UTIs if they don't clean back there well so I suspect that one gets learned the hard way for anatomical reasons.

Re: It's weird, but I've noticed that Men Being Super Gross is a common relationship complaint.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't buy stories like that at all. Perhaps it happens at certain companies or in particularly appearance-focused fields, but my experience in the professional world doesn't line up with that at all. I don't get my nails done; I don't wear makeup (apart from the occasional eye shadow); my hair is almost always in a bun. I've never had a problem getting a position I wanted, and I've worked with plenty of women who are similarly "low key" with their appearance.

Re: It's weird, but I've noticed that Men Being Super Gross is a common relationship complaint.

[(Anonymous)]

"the occasional eyeshadow" isn't "no makeup".

I only wear makeup to job interviews, and only minimal amount around the eyes and some concealer... But I've never gotten the job when I didn't.

Re: It's weird, but I've noticed that Men Being Super Gross is a common relationship complaint.

[(Anonymous)]

It's really depends on the field.
Also people do look at you. I had much less trouble finding jobs when I was thinner and younger and had some mascara on.

Re: It's weird, but I've noticed that Men Being Super Gross is a common relationship complaint.

[(Anonymous)]

This. It depends entirely on the field. I never wore makeup in my daily life (or on the job ever again past the interview) but I always used to wear makeup to job interviews because I'd heard women who didn't were less likely to get hired. Then I forgot my makeup to one, decided fuck it I'll try anyway, and I got the job. Later I learned that if I had worn makeup I might not have - the job required a degree of security/enforcement, and they were leery about hiring a woman, until they saw my "stern" look (which was my boss's very polite way of saying butch).

I never wore makeup to a job interview again and have been hired for everything I applied to. But my current work is also dangerous/industrial. I think if anything management would look askance at you if you showed up dressed to the nines.

And honestly yeaaaaah they kinda should. It has been an actual problem with a previous hire who is my subordinate that I've had to deal with, where it has started interfering with her job because while she'll wear the bare minimum safety equipment (hard hat, vest, steel toes), she will wear it with clothing she can't kneel/crawl/climb a ladder in (frilly skirts, tights, "cute" floppy boots that are technically steel toed but clearly not meant for our industry, dangling jewelry, loose long hair, a face full of makeup that's going to start running the second she sweats), and nails that make it so that she can't firmly grip a tool. It's all under the auspices of "it's just a meeting/inspection, I don't have to do that, if I did I'd just change" but everyone knows that's not what's going to happen. What's actually going to happen is that she's going to get someone else to do that part of her job. There's a lot of overlap in our work and I have to climb up shit and get down on my hands and knees and use equipment all the time, I know she does - or she should - too. But she wrings her hands and asks one of the workers to do it or wastes everyone's time by going all the way back to the office. She's complained to me about the workers not taking her seriously and that it's clearly sexism but I've had exactly zero problems working with the same crews and neither have any of the other women in our section.

I'm in the process of correcting this behaviour as delicately as I can (it's not like the outfits belie an otherwise tough and gritty personality, she bursts into tears over everything and we are unionized/I don't want to take shit for "harassing" a subordinate), but now that I am senior enough to be involved in hiring myself... honestly, if she'd worn what she wears to work to our interview, she'd have been a no from me. I know some women have been told - like I was! - that they won't get hired if they aren't dressed/made up prissily, so I wouldn't punish them for that, wearing it to an office interview is fine: what I'd do is hold one of the interviews at a work site, after having accurately described the conditions and expectations of their work, then see what they showed up in, just to see if they have an iota of common sense.