[ SECRET POST #6385 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6385 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 46 secrets from Secret Submission Post #913.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

03. https://i.imgur.com/m32qUqH.png

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, fandom is where we explore fandom.

Which is not to say there isn't a place within fandom for exploring issues, sociopolitical and otherwise. There is, and it's good there is. But no, fandom is not "where we explore issues", it is where we smoosh our favourite fictional characters together and make them kiss. The clue is in the name.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, saying 'fandom is for kissing' isn't really any more accurate than 'fandom is for exploring issues' personal or societal or moral or whatever

Fandom is where we take our favorite fictional characters and make them do whatever we want, which is sometimes kissing each other, sometimes not kissing each other and going on adventures as friends, and sometimes lecturing their medieval peers about what demisexuality is. But claiming fandom is any one particular activity at all isn't really true

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, the "making them kiss" thing was obviously tongue-in-cheek.

Fandom is about making our favourite fictional characters do whatever floats our fannish boats, kissing or otherwise. The point I was making is that it is about making our favourite fictional characters do things. My argument with the OP saying that "fandom is where we explore issues" is that it's not: it's where we explore fictional characters.

Sometimes issues are part of that, sometimes it's not. But "exploring issues", while a part of fandom sometimes, is not and never has been the purpose of fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

NA - Seconding all of this. And I understood you were being tongue in cheek with the whole "making them kiss" thing.

[(Anonymous)]

Not too long ago, and still now in the view of many people outside fandom, making your favorite characters kiss fell into the category of "exploring issues" if those characters were two men or two women.

[(Anonymous)]

The opinions of people outside fandom could not be less relevant to the question of what fandom is for.

And even back in the days where queer fannish content was being ostracised and erased in wider fandom spaces, those of us into it cultivated our own corners for that content precisely so people who just wanted gay smooches did NOT have to deal with the "issue" of it.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not sure that I understand the wording. Could someone smart explain the bonus secret?

The main secret is about gatekeeping people out of fandom because they don't want to have social issues there? I think? What issues, what fandom? I'm confused.

[azurelunatic]

Social issues here is topics about various kinds of discrimination and hate. The specific issues are generally whatever people are working for justice about currently. For example, allowing transgender kids to take hormone blockers so they don't go through the wrong puberty, letting them get haircuts and clothes and a name appropriate to their gender at school. Or racism, that's a perennial topic. Various people yell that they don't want to read about racism or transgender or anything "woke" in their happy fun place. Sometimes this comes from a reactionary place; sometimes this comes from a place where someone is already dealing with these issues in their real life and they don't want to have to think about it too hard while relaxing.

One of the specific fandoms where this happens is Star Trek: how dare you have an unapologetic autistic-coded core character. How dare you imply that expensive healthcare drives people to get money however they can, including being complicit with terrorists. How dare you say that drone strikes using missiles of unknown composition on a peaceful low-tech village is unethical. Can't we go back to when Star Trek was all about space battles and monsters and heroism ... and the first prime time interracial kiss, the stupidity of racism, ethics in dealing with suspected genocidal war criminals, and the first prime-time same-sex kiss? Because Star Trek has always been poking at current day prejudices and comfortable attitudes.

I don't know The Boys, so I can't speculate there.

[(Anonymous)]

The Boys is remarkably unsubtle about how much it enjoys punching down at right-wingers. Homelander's thematic journey owes a lot to Trump.

[(Anonymous)]

As far as The Boys go, I don't watch it but my husband does, and the social issue of that show is (I think) showing up corrupt people in power (or in this case with powers) and how society responds to them. Recently I know a new season has started and there seems to have been a wave of people going "Hey, they're making fun of us," where Us is generally Trump-followers, TERFs, GamerGaters, and other groups of people who complain whenever science fiction addresses issues like bigotry and class warfare, regardless of whether or not it's been baked into the science fiction since it started. (See above re: Star Trek.)

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt
Thank you!

[(Anonymous)]

I'm of two minds on this. I do agree that the example shows in the secret are political and raise issues that are interesting to discuss. If you're a fan of The Boys and you don't realize fascism is bad ALONG with the gross superhero fun, you're missing the point by a mile.

On the other hand, the part of fandom that wants to hate on an actor because they haven't mentioned Palestine can fuck right off. I hate shit tests like that when artists (along with everyone else!) are allowed not to share their political thoughts.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, to me it depends entirely on the fandom because there absolutely ARE fandoms where the entire point of the canon is to explore issues and so you can't divorce the canon from the issues that it was created to explore. These are not the fandoms you want to be in if you want to avoid discussion about that sort of thing because it just goes part and parcel with the canon.

But there are far, far more canons that aren't created with any sort of issues in mind, and so yeah, someone trying to drag issues into those fandoms is crossing an unspoken line.

No.

[(Anonymous)]

Fandom is not activism. It doesn’t matter how much you desperately want it to be activism, it isn’t. It never was.

Fandom is a great place to meet other fans and learn different viewpoints, new concepts, other ways of doing or thinking about things. And that can spur ideologic, social, and political change. But at its base, it’s about fans discussing and creatively exploring a shared interest.

[(Anonymous)]

Fandom isn't activism, noir is a a good space to be an ass about politics.

[(Anonymous)]

No. Fandom is a place where you CAN explore certain issues if you so choose but at the same time, you have just as little right to demand everyone else engage with you as they have no right to tell you to not explore those issues. And if you're telling people to get out of fandom because they don't want to discuss your socio-political pet issue with you, congrats, youre exactly the same as the people you criticised.

[(Anonymous)]

Are you really using the "i know you are, what am i" defense?

[(Anonymous)]

I have no idea how you got that from ayrt's post.

[(Anonymous)]

The what.
And while you explain what you're on about, point out where im wrong. Go ahead.

[(Anonymous)]

"fandom is where we explore issues" uhm since when?

[nanslice]

I am so deeply not interested in "exploring issues." Maybe other people are and if so, cool (please tag so I can block), but I'm here for a. characters kissing and b. cool worldbuilding.

Uh...

[(Anonymous)]

So, that default attitude is not okay, but if it was "I don't want to care about social issues while I'm here, but you can do whatever you want with them and I just won't engage", that would be absolutely fine. Fandom can be about exploring social issues, but it doesn't have to be and I'm not sure why you would think it does.

And it would be great if rude people that think they can dictate what others care about would have to get out of fandom until they can learn to, at the very least, not express it to those others, however, that is not very realistic. Maybe if the others sometimes let these rude people know they are being rude it will help them learn. It will probably be ignored, but, you know, fingers crossed.

[(Anonymous)]

I think there needs to be nuance and a proper time and place for it.

I have/had fandom friends who I struggled to have nuanced discussions about issues with. I don't know how to articulate when to do this or how to approach it in a way that is "right" because it often is dependent on what the fandom is and what the issue is.

All I know is that I've noticed fans who tend to have social issues with fandom tend to see it everywhere. They see it in the text/canon work, they see it with the writers/producers/directors/creators, they see it with the cast via gossip rags/social media/traditional media coverage, they see it in the fandom amongst fans.

And I get a lot of issues are rampant across all boards, but when you, a fan, are bringing these issues up, what exactly is your precise issue, what do you want changed, is it systemic/individualistic, is it realistically speaking something that can be properly addressed or dealt with on some level, are you going in understanding that not everyone will agree with you or that it likely will not be well received?

Like...I appreciate YT creators for making video essays or commentary videos that help give space and some pointers on addressing issues in fandom (same with places like FS or Reddit), but the fans need to understand that we (fans/consumers) are NOT a monolith.

It does not begin and end with long angry paragraphs about what is wrong with society/the fandom.
It is ever moving work where we address our issues, try our best to hold those with power accountable, engage with those inside and outside of the works/fandoms, reflect how it applies to our actual IRL lives and communities and do our part to do better where we can.

Because I don't know how to tell fans in a polite way that will get my point across: They don't care. Your idols, authors, heroes, celebrities, people in power...they don't care.
There's no amount of angry bitchy Twitter threads that will get Hollywood to see that you are right in your anger or frustration.

Like...I think people are a little too in love with their persecution complex to be realistic in doing something actually useful to make their communities a little more accepting and open minded.

I get that fandom is filled with people who don't want to be more critical of the stuff they consume, but we don't overcome that by shouting at the top of our lungs on a soap box every opportunity we get.

Know your audience when you're calling for people to listen to you.