[ SECRET POST #6395 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6395 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 25 secrets from Secret Submission Post #914.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

On one hand, I do think the guilt-tripping about not getting more comments is antisocial behavior and annoying (even worse when it's a BNF who gets a ridiculous amount of comments and/or threatens to withhold fic as if making their relationship with readers an antagonistic one will solve anything). An occasional lament if it's worded in a non-guilt-trippy way is perfectly fine (to be honest, the post featured in the secret falls in this category IMO), but even gentle, positive reminders that authors really appreciate comments can get irritating if an author constantly posts them.

At the same time, I think the discourse on this has swung way too far in the direction of viewing "any time an author even MENTIONS that they like comments or thrive on feedback, they are committing a Cardinal Sin (either the sin of being rude/entitled to comments or the sin of revealing themselves to be a fake writer(/fan) who doesn't love writing(/the canon) enough that their pure love of it could sustain them in writing their 33 chapter epic)." The backlash toward an author asking for more feedback or complaining about low feedback has become so dehumanizing toward authors and their very ordinary and human need to know that people are actually reading their writing, that it has also become a form of antisocial behavior in fandom.

Like, it's actually just a fact that authors like comments (I mean, not literally all authors; undoubtedly you can find *someone* who hates getting comments but, one, they should disable comments on AO3 if that's how they feel (and everyone else who still has comments enabled, it can be safely assumed that they like and appreciate comments), and two, if they are implying that their negative attitude toward people commenting on their work is either typical or how people should relate to commenting, then fuck off with that; the vast majority of authors want comments and there's nothing wrong with that). It is also just a fact that comments ARE more meaningful and motivating than kudos. We shouldn't have to tiptoe around these obvious facts or deny their truth out of fear of looking like a self-absorbed external-validation-greedy author.

Other obvious facts that are objectively correct: Comment culture on AO3 (and Tumblr) nowadays is worse than it was on both ff.net and LJ back in the day (see for example the discussion on yesterday's secret #1: https://fandomsecrets.dreamwidth.org/3038537.html?thread=1124871753#cmt1124871753). This is due to a variety of things: more reading/working on phones rather than laptops; AO3's purposeful design as a highly centralized, public archive rather than a social media site, which means that comments and kudos are way more visible AND permanent than they'd be if the author posted their fic in a private or semi-private space, which makes people much more careful and self-conscious about what they write on other people's fics, lest it be unearthed 5 years later; lack of social media features that puts this distance or wall between fic writers and other fans. I mean, even when you DO have social media features, because of the way most social media sites are set up nowadays, people interacting with fic writers on social media are more likely to develop a parasocial "content creator/follower" type relationship with authors rather than mutual friendship relationships, which leads to unpleasant social dynamics and lonely experiences for fic writers. I don't want you to treat me like some lofty goddess; I want you to chat with me about things we like, like my fic! Also, people take authors for granted and can be as entitled to people's free labor as authors feel to comments (not a new thing -- people have always been pushy and rude to authors). These are some undeniable facts about the experience of being a fic writer in fandom.

Also, speaking from my experience: I used to only write very sporadically in small fandoms and in those fandoms, (in my experience) you don't really notice comments drying up because there aren't a lot of readers in the first place, and it sometimes takes years for anyone to comment at all, so the amount of feedback on your work can actually *increase* over time. However, if you switch to a larger, more active fandom where you (for example) write the same pairing for years (which I now have experience doing for the first time), you absolutely do notice that the more fic you write, the fewer readers you get on it AND fewer of those readers you get will take the time to leave a comment. Also, your older fic will still steadily accumulate kudos (most likely from people sorting by kudos when reading, or just combing through your backlog), but unlike when you first posted the fic, those kudos WON'T come with comments.

It's actually really demoralizing, because it's unlikely that your writing has gotten worse; it's that people just don't seem to think you're a writer who still needs motivation or feedback on their writing to continue going. "Everybody has already told this author that their fic is good, what would my comment add?" and "I love everything this person has wrote. Leaving another '💖😍💖' comment on their newest fic is unnecessary -- they already know I adore their stuff!" seems to be the thinking. But this is just wrong! It hurts knowing I get new readers on my old stuff and they just kudos and move on. It hurts that I start posting a new fic and I get 5 subscriptions for new chapter updates, but only 2 readers thought it was worth telling me that the fic is interesting and they're looking forward to reading more (real example that has just happened to me). It hurts seeing feedback dry up on my fic because I start to feel like my fic is getting boring and even people who enjoyed my fic in the past are not feeling it anymore, not enough that they view it worth their time to comment. I know people are shy and like to lurk; I know that it's just natural when seeing someone's content over and over again to stop engaging with it as consistently as when you first discovered it; and so I think it *is* actually helpful for authors to remind readers that comments are (still) appreciated. It doesn't matter if you're a random no-name fan and you're shy and inarticulate and don't know how to write good comments or the fic is 5 years old and everyone has already said what needs to be said or you're still as excited to read this fic as the 10 other fics you commented on -- I still want to hear *YOUR* thoughts!!

And yes, I do know that some people have way skewed expectations about the quality of their fic or the size of their fandom and therefore how much feedback to expect. I also get that some people are very harsh about the comments they get and this has burned commenters and made them less likely to comment. But I don't think it should be taboo for an author to admit that they're unhappy with the lack of feedback on their fic, or to remind people how meaningful and important comments are. And also I think at some point commenters *also* have to grow up and not blame asshole/entitled authors for why they don't comment. Just don't comment on the people who do that behavior and stick to people who like and appreciate your comments. At some point, it is also a very juvenile and embarrassing look to say, "The reason why I don't comment is because some fic authors can be very entitled." Like, everybody has that experience of getting a rude author response to their comment; you can still pick yourself up and choose to comment (on OTHER people's fic) anyway. No one is entitled to your comments but trying to use other people's behavior as a justification why you don't comment more just makes you seem thin-skinned and finger-pointing.

Okay, sorry, I wrote an essay. The tl;dr version: Yes, fic authors can be comment-greedy and it can be pathetic. I think we shouldn't let that get in the way of viewing fic authors as people. Being able to vent that comments are down and this is demotivating without being judged is part of that.

[(Anonymous)]

I think this captures a lot of the nuances really well. While as writers, we aren't entitled to feedback, and to some degree have to accept that our work may not connect with people, and may not generate likes/kudos/comments; as readers, showing appreciation for the fic that we read and enjoy is undeniably a good thing to do!

And to be honest, I don't fully buy the people who are like, "I write purely for myself and just share it for kicks." There's no reason to share a piece if you aren't hoping, on some level, that someone else out there might like it.

[(Anonymous)]

That's the thing though, you can know all this and still think posts like this are dumb and annoying. Like you can know that some people really want praise from their father. They have extremely valid reasons for being desperate from praise specifically from their father, and maybe their family situation has gone downhill. There's a whole lot of very reasonable things that make that totally normal for them and their situation, and they could write a tear-jerker essay on the whole situation.

But if they post something like "daughters are desperate for validation from their father" and people are like "yo, that's not true and also annoying that you're wording this like we're all like that, why couldn't you just have said that you are desperate for validation from your father" then explaining the poster's personal circumstances and how they are valid in their situation... is probably not addressing what those people are annoyed about.

At the basic level, people are annoyed about being spoken for and being claimed into the same "group with this issue" as the poster. None of what you said actually addresses that.