fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #6455 ]

[ SECRET POST #6455 ]

⌈ Secret Post #6455 ⌋

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Notes:

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Would you care to elaborate on the People magazine and 'good schools' bit? I get the extremely vocal part - that habit is annoying no matter what they're being all super vocal bordering on preachy about.

AYRT

With regards to the People magazine bit, there are two things that make me wary of it. The magazine is written for reading levels below the national average. While I do understand that reading education varies widely, it's not a great sign if this magazine is what you tend to reach for when given a choice. Even Reader's Digest would be a more digestable option. This ties into the other thing I am not big on. People magazine is willing to give a platform to problematic groups (such as fundie families) and allow not-so great ideas to gain mainstream acceptance.

As for the good schools bit? That phrase has historically been used to subtly indicate neighborhoods that haven't been impacted by redlining, but it has gone mainstream. The connotations of that kind of phrase have stuck around and toe the line of microaggression.

https://www.apartmenttherapy.com/great-schools-real-meaning-36651444

https://www.teachingtraveling.com/school-segregation-nice-white-parents/

https://www.mckissock.com/blog/appraisal/say-this-not-that-words-and-phrases-to-replace-in-your-appraisal-reports/

I guarantee that 90% of people who say "good schools" mean it literally and are not aware of the things you refer to here.

AYRT

I ran this by a friend of mine who lives in a different part of the country than myself. His exact words: "I always figured 'good schools' was a dogwhistle for white mid-upper class." I suspect that percentage is below 90%, especially in the northern US.

Ah, yes, because 1 friend of yours says so, it must be true.

It's one example of a behavior/mindset I've seen play put in two different parts of the US (southeast Florida and the Upper Midwest). Given that my friend is in the Midatlantic area, I'd say this idea has had room to spread.

Where I'm from a "good school" meant as white as they can get. They would segregate if they could get away with it.

nayrt

It's gotta be a regional thing? Where I'm from a "good school" means "where all the super education-motivated/immigrant/both parents' kids are at." Meaning disproportionate east asian/south asian/latino/jewish representation.

Yeah, the "good school" near my house is actually minority white. It's a "good school" because the kids get good test scores across the board and go on to good colleges/universities.

da

Yeah, this is how I'm used to seeing it used, too. The "good school" in a district tends to be the one where most of the university professors' kids go, and you can bet that includes many Indian, Chinese, Lebanese, Russian, Vietnamese, and Iranian students. It's often not the most popular one with the white kids because of how hard they have to work to maintain their grades, and the lesser emphasis on social events. But it's decidedly not "whites only!"

Is your friend a parent with school-age children?

AYRT

He is not, but he could still pick up that information from his friends that do have kids. Plus, he lives in a university town and gets an idea of who has gotten into that university on scholarship or parents' funding.

It's kind of a dogwhistle for "middle class +" because the "better" schools in terms of college admission tend to be "middle class +" because...middle class and above students are just more likely to opt for college education anyway because it's a class-based expectation and the property tax dollars are there AND parents who have means and free time are often more involved/volunteer.

There are still "better" schools if you live in a racially-homogenous area. They're in the rich neighborhoods.

I see. I'm... still not really sure that the term is as suspect as you seem to think. Some people might certainly use it as some sort of dog whistle term, but I think most people just mean... a good school, because they want their kids to attend a good school.

I'm a POC, by the way.

AYRT

I'd like to believe that's the case. I think parents who actually want good schools can articulate what they're looking for and consult their kids for their feedback. That said, after observing my co-workers and extended family discuss the process of putting their kids into and through school, I don't think most parents actually know what a quality education looks like for their kids and just follow (outdated) social cues.

Er... "consult their kids for feedback"? You don't think most parents would know what a quality education looks like, but you think the kids would? Which kids, the ones attending the potential school, or their own kids? Would either group be a competent judge of whether or not a school had a good academic program? That doesn't really make a lot of sense.

My parents are immigrants. A good education is/was one of their top priorities in choosing a home, more so than proximity to work or other criteria. There are cultural reasons for this (because in the old country, if you did not receive a good education, that would determine the course of the rest of your life), but it's also common sense, IMO. If I had kids, I would also prioritize a good school district, and it boggles me that anyone would consider that suspect in any way.

It's possible the people you know don't know what factors to consider in school districts, and it's possible they're using "good schools" as a code word for something else, but I don't think that's necessarily a universal assumption you can make.

AYRT

Yes, I did say consult their kids for feedback. After all, the kid is the one attending the school. I actually got to have a say in where I went to school starting when I was about nine. I was actually attending an elementary school outside of my assigned zone due to being in special ed. When I managed to get to a point where the district felt I no longer needed to be in special ed, my family faced a choice. Either I stayed at my current school and file paperwork with the district allowing me to stay or transfer to the school I was zoned to attend. My parents asked for my thoughts, and I wasn't keen on leaving the school I'd come to know over the years. In the end, I was able to stay at my elementary school until it was time to move onto middle school (where I went to where I was zoned). Likewise, when it was time for high school, there were only two high schools in the district at the time. This meant that kids could choose where they went. My parents left this up to me. I decided to go to the high school way out in the boonies because that's where the IB program was offered in the district (and yes, that was my choice as well). When kids are engaged with school and have displayed initiative in setting education goals, they should have the chance to chime in on this choice.

My dad immigrated to the US in the 60s, but his dad's job required multiple moves. Thus, education ended up not being a priority for him. I think that stating immigrant status automatically equals prioritizing education is likely a relic of the past (and may not even be all that accurate). It also suggests that immigrants may be more vulnerable to the language used to encourage white flight (as shown in the Apartment Therapy link). These days, I think the immigrant stance on education has shifted thanks to charter schools (and pitches by parochial schools, which is another minefield altogether). Because of this shift in attitudes, I do think that the use of the phrase "good schools" is more frequently being used as a dog whistle, and its use is spreading to populations most vulnerable to losing tough with their cultural heritage.

You should always check with your kids to see if they doing well at school. My school grades were a fucking mess. Because, despite going to a school which was on paper a very good one, I was bullied relentlessly by peers and ignored by teachers. I was completely checked out long before I was able to leave. I begged to go to a nearby school which, on paper, was slightly less good, but had a school culture much more in line with my personality and where I could have had a fresh start.

However the authority figures in my life were very much of the do as you're told, and, children should be seen but not heard, school of childrearing. It made my life a thousand times harder than it could otherwise have been. So, yes, listen to your kids. They will know more about the day-to-day life of the school and how well it fits them than the stats and figures will ever be able to show.

DA

Same, really depends on the area and who's saying it. Like a POC parent is looking for "good schools," I'm willing to take them at face value. Especially if they're an immigrant.

The "best" public school in my hometown had more POC than the other "worse" public schools who were predominantly white. A lot of POC parents moved into our area specifically because they wanted to be in the place with the "good schools," while white parents seemed to care less, comparatively. All in neighborhoods with extremely similar levels of income.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #6455 ]

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